Holier than Thou; African Anglicans unhappy, ungay PDF Print E-mail
Written by Tim Norwood   
Friday, 31 August 2007

One of the hottest stories on the New York Times yesterday was an account describing the coronation of two US Anglican Bishops in Nairobi's All Saints Cathedral. The Head of the Anglican Church of Kenya, Archbishop Benjamin Nzimbi, joined the train of African Anglican primates consecrating new bishops in the breakaway orthodox stream of the US Episcopalian Church.

In the Nairobi ceremony, the primate who was joined by 10 other heads of national churches in elevated two priests who will be charged with the headship of 30 US congregations. Nzimbi's action is the latest in a flurry set off by Nigerian primate Peter Akinola in May against the wishes of the Church's supposed head the Archbishop of Canterbury. Akinola and Nzimbi are part of movement in the Church that takes a reading of scripture that rejects homosexuality as sin and that even when tolerating it in wider society, refuses to accept the consecration of gay priests as bishops.

‘maintaining the Church's discipline, guarding her faith and promoting her mission.

Archbishop Nzimbi's charge to new Bishops

That it is odd that African Churches are now marshaled in defence of this discrimination goes without saying. These Churches many of which are no more than the odd one-hundred years old, are now brazenly standing up to defend the Church against what they see as its adulteration by overly liberal ideas on what is permissible and what is not. This stand is made all the more infuriating for the mother Church in England, by the fact that although it's head the Archbishop of Canterbury- Rowan Williams - is the nominal head of the Church, his authority is diminished by the plain fact that over half of the world's 77 million Anglicans live in Africa and hold strident, rejectionist views on homosexuality.

You can almost feel the tectonic shift in the direction of the Church's power as Nzimbi charges his new subordinates with ‘maintaining the Church's discipline, guarding her faith and promoting her mission.' The Archbishop of Canterbury and much of the Church of England continue to hold the view that a misreading of scripture is responsible for the rejection of homosexuality in the Church, even though they themselves were not party to the consecration of the openly gay Gene Robinson by the US church.

In an emotional appeal to the African primates, Robinson is quoted this week analogizing his rejection and that of other gays and lesbians, by the African Church with the attitude of ‘ American slavers and racists' who he says latched on to scripture to justify the inhuman treatment and discrimination of others.

The controversy seems set to continue, with American conservatives in groups like Ekklesia- headed by one of the Bishops enthroned in Nairobi- working hard to market the breakaway traditional congregations and the global church looking intent on further liberalizing- the second in order of precedence in the English Church is a black Ugandan, and the American Church is headed by a woman.





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powerless
written by Jayawardene , August 31, 2007
So are our world churches now behaving like political parties? Is nothing sacred anymore

It burdens my heart with great sadness that instead of preaching unity we are watching the splitting up of God's Church. We should all be ashamed of ourselves. Some will say that it is just another development in the history of the Church. At one time the Anglicans and Catholics were one. There was even talk of them coming together again, but after these recent events one can forget that too.

Is it not amazing that even as all over the world religions are preaching love, unity and tolerance, if two men like each other it blows apart the congregation.....maajabu
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written by ole mepukori , August 31, 2007
Homosexuality is not a new phenomenon, it has been there, in church and schools. personally i see nothing wrong with a gay bishop. The most important thing is the message they preach not what they do in the closet unless it is with young boys.
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abomination
written by Mr.Kay , August 31, 2007
What will we have next, transsexual priests?

We cannot simply ignore the only activity God calls an abomination, especially for a church leader.

Tolerance has never meant agreeing with something.
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written by a guest , August 31, 2007
[Comment deleted by Mod.]
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written by a guest , August 31, 2007
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written by a guest , August 31, 2007
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Tolerance?
written by Hon , August 31, 2007
Thess two men are engaging in beastiality. Tolerance? we tolerate child murder (abortion), prostitution, bestiality...next the grissly murder itself.

The doltish post is another example of characterless minds running amock. I beleive some people need to be colonized, because they cannot handle freedom responsibly.
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what would Jesus say?
written by Tim Norwood , August 31, 2007
Mr Kay,
There's two things involved here, which is why I did not myself take too harsh a view on the Church's decision. The first is the fact of the Church as an organisation being free to make its own rules. Now, especially because the Church is an entity defined largely on moral grounds, it is difficult to define just what those morals are and what their order of precedence is.

I am not a Christian, and I feel that religion is often a divisive and destructive force. But the message of Jesus speaks from across the centuries and it is unequivocal about one thing, do not judge lest ye be judged.

All is not lost however. In non-third world countries, no one would hold someones's being gay or even transexual against them!
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written by Marangu , September 01, 2007
Institutional discrimination is not acceptable, not very long ago, women and black people were not allowed to vote, or use the same public facilities as the other people. Religion has been used to justify about anything, from war to outright racial descrimination. The Apartheid regime in South Africa and Hendrik Verwoerd quoted the bile extensively to justify their racial policies and elevate the White race as the chosen one. I don't understand the world of Gay people, It's not my place to judge them, and they have done nothing wrong to be judged. If you don't like the church, move right along Mr/Ms Perfect, you will find something that suits your 'straight' taste.
And Pongezi for your position Tim, I think the piece was balanced and objective.
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re:
written by Marangu , September 01, 2007
Religion has been used to justify about anything, from war to outright racial descrimination. The Apartheid regime in South Africa and Hendrik Verwoerd quoted the bile extensively to justify their racial policies and elevate the White race as the chosen one


Correction: Bible not Bile

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is the church hypocritical?
written by bex , September 01, 2007
the other day we were laughing with colleagues, how the church has been infiltrated by pretenders, pastors who wont bat an eye lid while soliciting sexual favours from the female members of the congregation.
bishops who engage in politics and at times corruption, who higly embrace controversial issues..
am sure we can name them all.

without digressing much, i agree with Tim that the church is largely hinged on morality and acceptability of certain issues.

so, if immorality is being wished away in the church, why is it so hard to accept people just because they are different and their sexual tastes different.

i must admit that i have no idea what are the sexual preferences of my PCEA reverend, i respect him very much, listen to his sermon without wondering what he does at night.

the only problem i see, is because the gay bishops have disclosed and in the meantime made people imagine things.

what is a bigger sin- immorality or not accepting others. i dont know whether being gay is a sin or not.

my opinion-issues should be addressed in a more sober way. lets stop and think of the many bishops and pastors we hear batter their wives, have extramarital affairs, what should we do, banish them from the church or accept them.

by the way, the christian army is the only know to kill its wounded soldiers. ask the ladies in the youth or other positions of leadership who have children out of wedlock... no one wants to associate with them after that.

am not sure i am addressing the question at hand but the church is intertwined with so many double standards that the decisions are amazing at times.
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live and let live
written by Marangu , September 01, 2007
bex:
Exactly and to a large extent the faithful are brought up never to question the morality of the 'shepherd'. Of course what has come out in recent times has shown that homosexuality is universal. I think tolerance is key, and on this issue our African Bishops have let us down and misrepresented the believers among us.
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written by David Mwangi , September 01, 2007
Matters of faith, by their very nature, are very difficult, if not impossible, to have clear-cut guidelines on. They are also very personal, which leads to strong feelings when disagreements arise. This is what is happening in the Anglican church.

I am a Christian and I am strongly opposed to gay clergy. According to the Bible, which Christians believe is the word of God, homosexual behavior is an abomination. Honestly, I don't see how a gay preacher could honestly purpot to lead fellow believers in their Christian walk.
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written by acolyte , September 01, 2007
If the Bible says that homosexuality is wrong then why should the church indulge leaders who are pushing this lifestyle?!
The gay clergy need to start their own church and keep it moving.
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kick them out
written by Churchill Kinyua\'imata , September 02, 2007
I support the acolyte here. Truly the bible is the word of the living God and truly it says in one chapter in the older testaments that homosexuality is wrong. I think honey is mixing that up with bestiality which is also forbidden nowadays. Remember the man in limuru few months ago? The bible says that gay priests' behaviour are....to quote David Mwangi...an abomination. Nice one Dave. I cannot find the part in the bible otherwise I would quote it to all you doubting christians.

Our church will always survive. Let those who support gay priests go set up their own churches.
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written by Marangu , September 02, 2007
Churchill:
With respect, I have to don the uncomfortable hat and bat for Hon here, if anyone is mixed up, it's you sir. Bestiality has not been an issue here, and the debate has been rather straight forward. I think those of us (including the author) who hold the view that we should be tolerant and non-judgemental towards people of a different sexual persuasion are not, as you put it, 'supporters' of gay priests. There is a difference. And for the record Churchill, I respect and appreciate your priest, regardless of his sexual orientation - you never know!
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Save your church
written by Churchill Kinyua\'imata , September 03, 2007
Dear Mr Marangu.

You sounded like a fair man in many other posts too and I plead to you now. Our holy church is in great despair. The world is in great danger. Now is not the time to be soft. Now is not the time to sit on the fence. The Good Lord Sayeth: Those that are not with me are against me.

Mankind has been overtaken by temptation. He has taken the good church and turned it upside down. Sir, you speak of tolerance and understanding. Why then do you refuse to understand that the modernists are ruining this church my church and your church. Practice some tolerance to my point that our church must not accept gay priests Why must it be the law-abiding, God fearing church goer who always has to give in?

A proper sign of maturity and tolerance is for a gay priest to set up his own new church and call his followers to it. It makes sense.
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written by Marangu , September 03, 2007
Churchill:
You come accross as very sincere too, and its for this that I appeal to your sense of justice on this issue. The reason people are ostracised, persecuted, even killed in the name of religion is because of such issue as what we are discussing here. Like yourself I am of Christian persuasion, Islam is a religion opposed to christianity in many respects, and so is Judaism. But we all live on this earth and share social amenities inspite of our differences. But when it comes to religion, we choose where we want to worship, and who we want to worship. As a Christian, it's your duty to play for those you believe are living in sin, leave the judging and condemning to the Almighty. Can I here say that my appeal for tolerance is not because I necessarily agree with that way of life, rather, my belief that everyone has a right to self determination. I also believe that the making of an underclass in society has its beginnings in covert practices like the one we are debating here. I said before that I don't understand a Gay or Lesbian persons' world, I doubt that they understand mine, but we are all here, we have an equal right to live and believe and worship where we wish. It also happens that there are plenty of sanctuaries, enough for all of us. Would it surprise you, Churchill that we may have gay clergy in Kenya who probably pastor to some of us debating here. The actions of the Bishops only serve to to keep these guys in hiding, they further give the false impression that their constituency is anti-gay and probably 'free' of same. Some day we will know and probably welcome the truth... and probably be free indeed.
As for saving my Church, I sincerely assure you that the biggest threat to the church generally and my church in particular is not from Gay People. I would be digressing seriously if I started debating the treats to christianity today, other than to say, they are not mostly from without, but from within, out of 100, homosexuality does not even make late 90s.
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written by Churchill Kinyua\'imata , September 04, 2007
I thank you Mr Marangu for taking the time to reply. In doing so you have broadened the debate and given me some food for thought.

To my mind true Christianity does not teach us to oppress our brothers and sisters. On reflection I am not really comfortable denying justice to any minority. Our church is big enough for everyone
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written by Marangu , September 04, 2007
I am really glad that through a debate like this we are able to cast our emotions aside and reflect, and sometimes that is all it takes to understand and appreciate a different opinion, even if you remain opposed to it. We live in a continent where people still get killed for involvement in witchcraft, or for allegedly being a bad omen to society... I don't exactly know what that is, but people die. This gay issue is no different, these guys are different, yes! but that is no reason to ostracise them. For those of us that believe, we know there are consequences for whatever wrong we do, this is the truth we should try to get to everyone (Evangelize if you like), if gay people are in the church, they will hear it clearer, faster.
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re:
written by Watetu , September 04, 2007
Thank you Marangu for your posts. You are right, it is not our place to judge. Ours is to pray-not just for those that we beleive are sinning but also that God may help us deal with/overcome our weaknesses/sins and ultimately be a positive influence on others.

Too many times we are busy taking out the speck in our neighbour's eye whilst we are blinded by the logs in ours.

John 3:17 says
17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.


If not even Jesus was given the mandate to condem others, where do we get the right to condemn anyone?
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rewrite the bible?
written by seline , September 05, 2007
We all know that the bible condemns homosexuality(for those who have read it)
Refusing to ordain gay priests does not mean that the church condemns them,God definitely loves all men, irrespective of their sexual orientations.Homosexuals are definitely welcome to church but not as leaders. How do you expect a gay priest to tell the congregation to shun homosexuality(as the bible states)? That necessarily calls for a rewriting and a reinterpretation of some parts of the scriptures, and God help us all if we try to .
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written by Watetu , September 05, 2007
Seline, you are right, the Bible does condemn homosexuality and a gay priest/church leader is ill equiped to teach this to his/her congregation.

The problem is however that there seems to be an inability to separate the issue of homosexual priests and that of homosexual people. As a result many gay people feel marginalised and condemned by the people in their congregation.

A lot of people have a very holier than thou attitude towards the gay community. We act as though their sin far outweighs any possible sin we could ever commit and talk about them like they are the scum of the earth. We seem to forget that
...all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 8:23)


Ostracizing gay people serves no purpose other than to keep them away from the church and what use is that?
Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners(Mark 2:17)."

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We Angry-cans
written by Churchill Kinyua\'imata , September 05, 2007
On reading the posts from Marangu and Watetu I now regret more than ever the previous posts above. I was furious about other frustrations of day to day life and I suppose I decided to vent my anger on the issue of gay priests. I would not like to see our church split down the middle.

Quite honestly I do not know what will happen if the church splits. The different parties are so deeply rooted in their positions that it seems no compromise can be reached.

Whilst It is true that we must not judge others, how will I make my choice? If there is no middle ground should I fall on the side that is for tolerance or should I stick to the hardline stance?

Who can tell me this?
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honesty
written by bex , September 05, 2007
i wish we can have more people like Churchill, who will admit when they have wrongfully vented their anger.

well, i guess that the cornerstone to fruitful and knowledgeable dialogue.

as for acceptance and tolerance, i guess you should search your heart and follow it.

find your balance and stick to it. afterall, peace is all what we long for. peace within our hearts and with those around us.
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written by Marangu , September 05, 2007
Seline:
Good debate.
Whose standard are we using to accept gays in the church but deny them leadership. Watetu quotes the verse from Romans, essentially we are all sinners. If you use that as a starting point, you will see no need to be preoccupied with issues you neither understand nor appreciate. Even if you one day appreciate that gay people are as human as you are, you may never understand why Asians especially Chinese eat frogs and other reptiles. Meanwhile the Muslims cannot get it that we, Christians, eat pork while we very well know they were used as vehicles or vessels to cast away evil spirits (remember the verse in Old Testament). So as you worry about other peoples' perceived sins, there are others who are equally worried about yours. The moral.. this earth is big enough for all of us, and God has boundless love for everyone, perfect and imperfect. Trust him to rule and to judge justly. Lets concetrate on things we can do well, like choosing the next government wisely.
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written by David Mwangi , September 06, 2007
This is a good debate.

The essence of Christianity is love, love to all people, those who we deem perfect and those we deem imperfect.

In my own human way, I must confess that I am not comfortable having a person who is gay as my priest. I know people have varying opinions on this matter, and that some will brand me homophobic, but at this point, I can't run away from that feeling.
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Tolerance
written by Jackie , September 09, 2007
Marangu,
I trully enjoyed your reasoning and plea for tolerance, up until I read your lack of tolerance to muslims. I believe your understanding of Islam might be alittle bit if not totally off and I am led to believe that the only reason you brought up your opinions on Islam was to appeal to the Christians to unify and accept the gays because there are worse people out there like the non-pork eating muslims. If you want people to unite, let it be because of teachings of the bible and Jesus, and not because there are muslims out there
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written by Marangu , September 09, 2007
Jackie:
I am surprised you consider my view of Muslims not eating pork intolerant. I actually think all I did was restating a fact to explain our many differences as global citizens. If you try to understand that statement from the context it was written, whether you are Muslim or not, you will understand what I meant.If you followed my posts, you will have gotten my drift, which is accross the board tolerance for peoples choice, whether it's faith, sexual orientation etc So Jackie, I eat pork, I don't eat frogs, I respect those who do and I expect people to tolerate my choice.
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