darkest Anglo-Saxon import
written by emmo opoti , May 21, 2007

May I start this off by declaring that universal adult suffrage is a form of slavery. In the words of Henry Mencken, giving every man a vote has no more chance of creating freedom and wisdom than does Christianity of bringing about good.

In our peculiar Kenyan case, there is even less reason to be enthusiastic about it. One would hope that the mwananchi would have become more skilled at calculating his benefits. Experience paints a rather different picture.

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written by aeichener , May 21, 2007

Universal suffrage was a fight of the 19th century and achieved in the 20th. But now we are in the 21st, and not every achievement of the past should remain a holy cow. The question is: what would be better? Binding voting rights to income, to estate (only noblemen and burghers?), to education?

And would it make any difference? After all, the inmates of psychiatric institutions (the "lunatic asylums" of yore) were found to vote quite identically in mock elections to their counterparts on the outside...

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written by Amir Ibrahim , May 21, 2007

Yes, only noblemen need vote ( and women ). I think there should be two tiers of election qualifications. Your ordinary mwananchi must be allowed to vote for local issues, the things that happen in his immediate surrounding. After taking an exam on economics, history, government and human rights the citizen can then qualify to participate in elections for Central Government.

The presence of Mwai Kibaki or Raila Odinga on a Kenyan ballot evinces in the starkest terms the incompetence of the Kenyan voter, and his striking inability to act in his own interest.

One woman one vote
written by aeichener , May 21, 2007

I agree with Amir. Actually, one of my first reactions when I saw the question title was an itch in my finger yearning for the editing screen. I resisted it.

Because the gender-exclusive language serves, a true skandalon, to remind us of its contrary. Actually, one woman - one vote would be a good remedy. Just exclude men from suffrage for 20 years. Things would change for certain. Probably to the better.

Alexander

civic engagement
written by Nekessa , May 22, 2007

Education of citizens is challenging all over the world, but with a hungry electorate even so.

This is what is going to happen--> in the next few months, MPs who hardly leave Nairobi for their constituency are going to find their way home. Mp aspirants, some from the Diaspora and others from Nairobi, who hardly visit their constituency will avail themselves to the people promising Eden. Well, some will have good intentions while others are intent on really making a change. BUT how will the electorate know? seeing as they are all making confident promises? And the incumbent? Well, with the money that they have "earned from working so hard for the taxpayer" the incumbent will buy his vote.

After taking an exam on economics, history, government and human rights the citizen can then qualify to participate in elections for Central Government.

Where do you see this happening?

Ridiculous
written by That Kenyan Loser , May 22, 2007

I have been waiting in vain for Emmo, Amir and Alex to say that their outrageous statements about excluding wananchi from voting were jokes.

I do agree with Alex, however, that if women were in charge, Kenya would be better. All these men going around making decisions for everyone and pretending to know it all would retreat to the boondocks they came from.

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written by emmo opoti , May 22, 2007

I am not changing my mind any time soon. Giving the mwananchi the vote is like allowing your child to do whatever he wants in the knowledge that he will bear the consequences by himself. The responsible parent does not do this because he acknowledges the lack of the capacity in the child, to make this decision for himself nor to take on the consequences. So the child is protected from this danger not out of disrespect but out of the deepest affection.
Now it is clear that this opinion is not peculiar to us here. It was what informed the universal setting of age limits on voting ages. This line is drawn at an age of some assumed maturity.
Now, I am persuaded that maturity is not about age but about knowledge or wisdom. Asking that all those who want to vote take a course that qualifies them is not direspectful of the rights of these people. It is merely a recognition that absent this knowledge they are mere slaves to some idea (religion, race, ethnicity) or beholden to some master making the decision for them (referendum).

re:
written by That Kenyan Loser , May 22, 2007

Giving the mwananchi the vote is like allowing your child to do whatever he wants in the knowledge that he will bear the consequences by himself.

Wrong analogy here, Emmo. Try, "Giving a child his share of food..."

The responsible parent does not do this because he acknowledges the lack of the capacity in the child, to make this decision for himself nor to take on the consequences.

Last time someone here mistakenly thought I compared Kibaki to a father, I got in trouble. I can't wait to see you suffer the same treatment.

Asking that all those who want to vote take a course that qualifies them is not direspectful of the rights of these people. It is merely a recognition that absent this knowledge they are mere slaves to some idea (religion, race, ethnicity) or beholden to some master making the decision for them (referendum).

Won't it make more sense to embark on a voter education campaign than to act in a paternalistic way of making decisions for our fellow citizens who weren't fortunate enough to learn what we have?

Or do you believe that the uneducated are not capable of learning?

re: re:
written by aeichener , May 22, 2007

Or do you believe that the uneducated are not capable of learning?

Of course not. On the contrary. In Kenya, it's the "educated" (the credentialised) who have frequently shown themselves unable of learning.

Alexander

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written by Stephen Wanyama , May 22, 2007

Let me weigh in on the side of That Kenyan. I acknowledge what Emmo Alex and Amir are trying to put across and it is true that democracy has done nothing but enslave the little people, but what are the alternatives. That is the question.

For a fact the mwananchi, defined here not by the number of degrees he has (look at all those PhD ignoramuses in parliament) but by the spirit he subscribes to is often hurting himself by his decisions, but that I believe is his decision to make. Allowing only a select few the permission to elect is tantamount to tyranny.

Churchill on democracy
written by aeichener , May 22, 2007

Both Amir and Stephen can base their opinion on famous Churchill quotes:

“The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."
(Speech in the House of Commons, Hansard, November 11, 1947)

Alexander

Lets avoid the arrogance of ed
written by Jotero , May 22, 2007

It seems to me there is an assumption here that only the educated can vote wisely. This is a fallacy wisdom doesn't necessarily come with education.
Emmo Opotti wrote

Now, I am persuaded that maturity is not about age but about knowledge or wisdom. Asking that all those who want to vote take a course that qualifies them is not disrespectful of the rights of these people. It is merely a recognition that absent this knowledge they are mere slaves to some idea (religion, race, ethnicity) or beholden to some master making the decision for them (referendum).

I must say I couldn't disagree more it is the educated who tend to be slaves of various ideas or "isms". The uneducated tend to be more pragmatic in their outlook weighing ideas against their commonsense. It is no accident that most of the worlds most heinous atrocities against humanities were carried out by highly educated zealots in the service of some esoteric ideology.

I believe universal suffrage is also a moral necessity and an essential human right. The preamble to the US Declaration of independence lays out the reasoning.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

The issue of bribing voters is being blown out of proportion. We have secret ballot voting the bribed don't have to vote for the briber. Kenyans know this and talk about it on occasion. "Kula kwa huyu, Kura kwa huyo". The bribery problem would only be exacerbated by reducing the pool of voters since this magnifies the effect of bribes. I have seen no evidence that bribing educated voters is any harder than bribing uneducated voters. They simply respond to different things the educated respond well to coded comments about equity which simply mean "I will favor my tribesmen".

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written by emmo opoti , May 22, 2007

Jotero,That Kenyan,
I am afraid we mean very different things when we talk about education. Not credentialism but education, as listed above clearly. Human rights, history, government (the duties of the executive, parliament, the judiciary), the concept of accountability, etc. Not university degrees, not even literacy but education. An ability to understand the importance of events, to tranlsate the news.
Too many of our people think the President is a king, hence such talk as 'Moi destroyed Kenya', 'Kenyatta killed Somalis', etc. Too many of our people are unschooled in human rights, good people even. Rights have to go hand in hand with responsibilities.

On the American Constitution. Yes, that is a great example of the need for voter education. The American voter is just about as ignorant about democracy as anyone on the planet. Elections in the USA are a farce, from candidate selection and nomination (the RNC and DNC) , the power of the media, the power of the corporations, ground rules for the candidates, etc. Come on Americans do not even control their own money supply. Read on the Federal Reserve or the extent of the power of American Corporations.

Equality is a cliched banality. There is no such thing anywhere on the planet. Nowehere is this clearer than in the USA or Kenya.

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written by emmo opoti , May 22, 2007

Let me make it clear. I am not advocating a permanence of exclusion from the voting booth. Merely that everyone who wishes to wield a vote must actively express that desire by submitting himself or herself for a course in the workings of a modern liberal democracy.
I know some people who think PCs are MPs. Or people who do not think women should be in parliament. Really, why should such a person vote? Is not this ignorance dangerous to the country? Matiba was backed by many people who were won over by his let's kick Asians out spiel. Look at the hard time Tuju is having in his constituency, or say Kamotho in his. Are those not emblems of just how unqualified the mwananchi is to vote?

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written by Watetu , May 22, 2007

In spite myself, I tend to agree with Emmo, Amir and Alex. There are in my opinion certain decisions that should not be left to the mwananchi to make. This statement is made not from a place of disrespect rather one of realism. Do we honestly believe that in the face of the manipulative tribal, racial and religious politics rife in Kenya today, the electorate can be trusted to make an informed decision?

I do however battle with the question of how one earns the mandate to make a decision on behalf of the people. Aren't all people fallable and suseptible to making terrible mistakes? Millions the world over have given their lives to the fight for one man one vote. Isn't taking that away at the very least regressing and worse still trivialising their struggles?

It seems to me there is an assumption here that only the educated can vote wisely...it is the educated who tend to be slaves of various ideas or "isms"....It is no accident that most of the worlds most heinous atrocities against humanities were carried out by highly educated zealots in the service of some esoteric ideology.

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written by Amir Ibrahim , May 22, 2007

JOtero,
I think you will find that ideologies have never killed anyone. Two people with exactly the same ideology will have totally different views of the world. Now take the example of World War II. Let's take the men of Yalta and compare them to Hitler.
Churchill had famously called for the gassing of Iraq's Kurds, he also sanctioned along with Roosevelt the bombing of Dresden although there was no excusable reason for targetting civilians there. Churchill probably fancied himself a liberal and a capitalist, but he had no scruples about the subjugation of millions in the empire around the world did he? You may read more about the cuddly and avuncular man here.

Next Roosevelt. Contemplate the horrors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Next contemplate his support for eugenics. I will quote him, 'Now as to the negroes! I entirely agree with you that as a race and in the mass they are altogether inferior to the whites.'

One progressive who did not find warfare abhorrent, Theodore Roosevelt, believed, "A race must be strong and vigorous; it must be a race of good fighters and good breeders . . .." Unlike many eugenicists, Roosevelt saw great merit in the martial struggle for national greatness. "Eugenics is an excellent thing," Roosevelt wrote, but the individual must always be willing to risk his life for a good cause. For TR, the superior races had the duty of providing order for the world's "inferior" elements.

Enough said? Really research a little on the greatness of the man. And he was a progressive see.
I need not say anything about Stalin, the enormity of his evil being famous in itself. In the end he killed far more people than Hitler did, a truly bloody career.
So you see there was very little seperating these men from Hitler. Now Salazar and Hitler may have had similar ideologies but could two men have been more different? What ideological difference seperates Tony Blair from say Margaret Thatcher?

So the solution is erm ... no
written by Magothe , May 24, 2007

Having issue-based politics is a far better alternative than saying because you think you understand the issues better you should vote but not the next person which a very bourgeois way of looking at things. The political elite is to blame for the lack of focus on issues not the masses

scrap voting now!
written by Jayawardene , August 24, 2007

How did I miss this? Why do I always come to the party late when the interesting people have left and all the conversations have turned to the "how to de-worm your chickens" variety.

Amir, Alex and Emmo argue against one person-one-vote because it is a tool used against wananchi by the ruling classes to perpetuate their (mis)rule. It will never happen. It is true that universal sufferage is not working and should be reformed..

I happen to think that parenting is a very important role and should only be undertaken after prospective parents have passed some examinations...

None of these will ever happen!