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written by manta ray , March 28, 2008

Very good article. So what to do now? The most immediate and appropriate thing to do of course, is to change completely the way our politics is conducted. Unfortunately, the civil society in Kenya who should have led the way in taking the initiative away from the politicians has metamorphosed into the symbiotic twin of the political class.

Only the people collectively can now effect change, but how will that happen if people are so tribally inclined, and as seen in articles elsewhere on this forum, even educated people cannot let their tribal inclinations and passions stand down and let their nationalist identity stand up?

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written by politicalscientist , March 28, 2008

Does it have to be a man?

The Voice Behind Reason
written by James Watt , March 29, 2008

In the issue of the cabinet, we are dealing with parallel governments. A government which will also be highly unstable. I don't believe for a second that the two sides will mesh into one thing. It is a marriage of inconvenience. ODM has a huge advantage in this matter. They are the more homogenous party. PNU coalition has on top of the ethnic balance headache, the problem with balancing all the political parties in it. ODM can of course draw praise from all sides by parroting the more populous sentiments, at the same time weakening their opponent. And a nice slogan/ theme come 2012.

There was nothing wrong with Uhurus directive. The whole thing is aimed at killing two birds with one stone by bringing the mountain (passengers/ customers) to Mohammed (hawkers). While two reasonable minds can disagree on whether the matatus were the source of the jams in the CBD, there was no doubt that the hawkers in the CBD were a huge nuisance and greatly contributed to congestion on city streets. The project had a few teething problems because of the planning, but a few adjustments and it's working just fine. Definitely the shuttle should have been introduced alongside the opening of the market and not as an after thought.

If the plan is to remove most cars from the CBD successively, then it has my full support. That way some streets can be turned into pure pedestrian zones and with time, even some hawkers can be allowed to sell their wares there.

Manta, nationalism or national identity will not solve our problems. Strong economic stability, economic growth and employment generation and more evenly distributed wealth creation probably through industrialization as well as a transparent and accountable government will go a long way from taking the ammo from tribal politics. I mean I don't believe Kibaki, unlike Moi and Kenyatta even, was shipping all the funds to central but if there is no clear accessible data on how the funds of this nation are both collected and distributed then you fall prey to folks with better PR machinery. You can't count on the dailies and folks at KI to set the record straight for you.

Tribal inclinations is a poorly chosen phrase in reference to the two articles or indeed to most if not all replies to them. It's the either you are for me, or against me mentality. It is very possible to be both identify strongly with your tribe and be a highly productive and detribilsed citizen. I feel sorry for you that you have juxtaposed yourself in a position where you have to choose one over the other.

If you are looking to education to remove what you have identified as some evil, sorry, try and look elsewhere. Most people who've held political office in Kenya now and in the past, from Kibaki to Raila to Ruto to Kenyatta to Tom Mboya, name them, have been highly educated, a number of them even professors and some have acted in a tribalistic manner unlike any of the folks posting in this board.

I submit to you that there is a huge difference between tribal inclination and tribal pride and one thing does not necessarily lead to another. I see the word tribal inclination meaning that one will act in a tribalistic and corrupt manner in most day to day situations or has dealings exclusively with those of his tribe.

As far as the coming of the golden child who'll rescue us all, I believe the Kibaki government was a huge step in the right direction. It for one through devolution of power through the CDF, gave the MP executive powers in affecting development at the grassroots levels.

As no one can come here and seriously argue that all MPs are of one tribe, then that is a way of making people less dependant on the central government and more dependant on local government. The MP will replace the President as the more important figure in politics, something that the councilor should actually have been, but they are hopelessly incompetent. If your area is not really being developed you can now directly blame your MP and remove him/her from office in 5 years time.

This is also a channel to diffuse tribaal politics, which is why I think the CDF scheme should get more funding and be able to influence more of the development projects including infrastructure and services like electricity and water.

Thanx Manta
written by James Watt , March 29, 2008

Btw Manta, thanx for turning this thread yet again into a referendum on tribe, as is 4 concurrent threads are not enough. Just like Stephen did with the one about Obamas speech.

Nationalism
written by The Falcon , March 29, 2008

The best way to achieve nationalism that Manta Ray so craves for is to organize an attack from outside eg. say from Sudan or Uganda, There's no better way to galvanize nationalistic feelings.

James Watt is right, power has shifted. Your local MP is now more important than your president. Your local MP in many parts of the country is your tribes mate. When Maendeleo doesn't come people can hardly cry tribalism when all the money is being distributed almost equally. Very unfair to gigantic constituencies by the way. It will actually kill all those sentiments of having to have the presidency in order for development to come.

Uhuru and the Muthurwa fiasco. Poor planning, nothing else. Shows that the designers of the scheme had not taken all factors into account. The shuttle bus thing. The goals are however ok, and people should appreciate walking. Keeps you fit. Nairobi is so poorly planned anyway it hardly has space for recreation activities like sports.

re: Nationalism
written by Kim G , March 29, 2008

Uhuru and the Muthurwa fiasco. Poor planning, nothing else. The goals are however ok, and people should appreciate walking. Keeps you fit. Nairobi is so poorly planned anyway it hardly has space for recreation activities like sports.

You probably dont live in Eastlands or you drive yourself to work. Having to wake up at 4am every morning then walking from the City Stadium into town can hardly be described as a recreational activity. Its pure torture. Then the long trek back to the City Stadium back in the evening, getting caught up in traffic before arriving home at 9pm. No wonder our healths and family lives are taking a beating.

You are probably wondering why we have to walk to and from the City Stadium instead of using Muthurwa. You see, there are so many matatus that it takes about an hour just moving from City Stadium to Muthurwa. Its better to walk than risk getting to work late. Now with the long rains, things are worse. On the night of 27th March, there was a demonstration by commuters at the City Stadium angry at the unavailability of transport. On that particular night, trips that should have cost Shs30 went up to Shs70. After all these, telling people to pay an extra Shs20 for shuttle services is a plain insult.

The Muthurwa plan is a hopeless fiasco and I just thank God that Uhuru Kenyatta didnt become our president back in 2002.

re: Thanx Manta
written by manta ray , March 29, 2008

Btw Manta, thanx for turning this thread yet again into a referendum on tribe, as is 4 concurrent threads are not enough. Just like Stephen did with the one about Obamas speech.

You are the same guy who proclaims loudly and very proudly that tribe and tribalism is part of our reality, then when i point out how this is the genesis of the "failure of leadership" in Kenya, you start, without proof, irrelevant topics about how i have turned this thread into a referendum on tribe. You have eyes yet you won't see and ears yet you won't hear. Well, if thats your pleasure, continue doing what you do best and enjoy yourself.

Bone headed leadersip
written by Cogni , March 29, 2008

I think Uhuru's move to bar matatus from the city center is an example of the bone headed way Kenyan Leaders go about addressing Kenya's problems.

The horrendous traffic problems in Nairobi are due to poor planning and exponential growth in traffic. They cannot be solved by hasty ill researched roadside decrees.

The solution to the traffic congestion problem is to facilitate the movement of as many people into and out of the city as efficiently as possible. This would mean maximizing the number of high occupancy vehicles in the city. You can't do this by banning the vehicles carrying the most people from the city center.

What the minister should have done as a short term solution is to create special lanes that have been set aside to allow buses, matatus and all high occupancy vehicles access to the city center and passage through traffic bottlenecks.

Professor Nyongo and odm's stand on the safaricom ipo is another example of bone head politics. Nyongo is so afraid that someone other than odm will benefit from the ipo that he is willing to do anything to block the sales. It is telling that one objection that odm has is that shares set aside for foreigners will be bought by Kenyans with foreign accounts. Why this would be a problem for anyone other than the foreigners is a mystery.Except that for some Kenyans they would rather the company be owned by foreigners than Kenyans from the wrong community or political party.

re: Bone headed leadersip
written by Wuod Aketch , March 30, 2008

Professor Nyongo and odm's stand on the safaricom ipo is another example of bone head politics. Nyongo is so afraid that someone other than odm will benefit from the ipo that he is willing to do anything to block the sales. It is telling that one objection that odm has is that shares set aside for foreigners will be bought by Kenyans with foreign accounts. Why this would be a problem for anyone other than the foreigners is a mystery.Except that for some Kenyans they would rather the company be owned by foreigners than Kenyans from the wrong community or political party.

Our distinguished professor only demanded that
1. the identity of Mobitelea, which owns five per cent shares in Safaricom, be established before the IPO began.
2. the privatisation of Safaricom be in conformity with the provisions of the Privatisation Act. This Act requires parliamentary approval of privatisation and sets up a commission that sets standards to protect public interest.
3. the IPO be transferred from the docket of the Investment Secretary at the Treasury to the Privatisation Commission as the law requires.

I don't think that the professor was demanding too much!! PNU and Kimunya have had their way so let them get out of the way now and let Kenya move on.
Safaricom could have been terrific venture but Kibaki, PNU and Kimunya have destroyed the fire that Kenyans would have had for this firm. I will not be surprised if Celtel and Kencom get more popular and more profitable than Safaricom in the near future.

re: re: Bone headed leadersip
written by manta ray , March 31, 2008

Our distinguished professor only demanded that
1. the identity of Mobitelea, which owns five per cent shares in Safaricom, be established before the IPO began.
2. the privatisation of Safaricom be in conformity with the provisions of the Privatisation Act. This Act requires parliamentary approval of privatisation and sets up a commission that sets standards to protect public interest.
3. the IPO be transferred from the docket of the Investment Secretary at the Treasury to the Privatisation Commission as the law requires.

I don't think that the professor was demanding too much!! PNU and Kimunya have had their way so let them get out of the way now and let Kenya move on.
Safaricom could have been terrific venture but Kibaki, PNU and Kimunya have destroyed the fire that Kenyans would have had for this firm. I will not be surprised if Celtel and Kencom get more popular and more profitable than Safaricom in the near future.

That does not mean that Kenyans should not buy the shares. If Kibaki and co. do not want to follow up on the Mobitelea issue now, that is besides the point. If you really want to make a statement, why don't you, Nyong'o and the ODM high command mobilise ODM supporters to boycott Safaricom altogether? After all, whenever you buy airtime, you are enriching Mobitelea, right? You can send sms through celtel instead, can't you? Oh! wait a minute, I forgot, the same Mobitelea guys also own a piece of Celtel, silly me! You could still make a statement and boycott Celtel too though! So what to do now and what are the options? Of course, you could summon the ODM "think tank".
Also, the same so called foreigners also bought Kengen shares and they are going to buy others. Many of these foreigners are actually fellow Kenyans in the diaspora, are you suggesting they are not entitled to buy them? Stop beating a dead horse, or jealousy will get you everywhere.
Some of you ODM fanatics are so bitter and spiteful that you imagine that PNU and its supporters would just go away. It won't happen. They are part and parcel of the Kenyan DNA. If they go away, Kenya dies.
If Kimunya and PNU are to get out of the way, well, so should Nyong'o and ODM. We do not need either of this parasitic political class.

Failed Leadership
written by Wan , March 31, 2008

We not only have failed leadership but Kenyans we have failed ourselves.How on earth do we wait for our leaders to share power EQUALLY when we know so well that even the smallest unit - a family, does not have equal power sharing. There is always a difference. Or how is your family ie the one you relate with on daily basis?Can we style up Kenyans and decide to wait for 2012 if we lost what we wanted this time round.We have always done so. Or should our country collapse because of the word power sharing?

...
written by Shiroh , March 31, 2008

The horrendous traffic problems in Nairobi are due to poor planning and exponential growth in traffic. They cannot be solved by hasty ill researched roadside decrees.

The solution to the traffic congestion problem is to facilitate the movement of as many people into and out of the city as efficiently as possible. This would mean maximizing the number of high occupancy vehicles in the city. You can't do this by banning the vehicles carrying the most people from the city center.

I could not have said it better myself.

re: re: re: Bone headed leader
written by Wuod Aketch , March 31, 2008

Manta Ray,
What are you trying to say above? Can you please translate.

...
written by manta ray , March 31, 2008

Wuod, Nyong'o and ODM are looking for ways to block shares of Safaricom, ostensibly because it will benefit the owners of Mobitelea. WHAT i am saying is that instead of just boycotting the buying of shares, Boycott Safaricom ALL THE WAY. DONT BUY airtime! Is that not a more effective way of hurting Mobitelea owners?
It wont help either if you move over to Celtel. Mobitelea owners also have interests in it too. Don't ever be fooled that they sold out when Kencell became Celtel.
So what would you advise Nyong'o to do?

re: re: Nationalism
written by The Falcon , March 31, 2008

You probably dont live in Eastlands or you drive yourself to work. Having to wake up at 4am every morning then walking from the City Stadium into town can hardly be described as a recreational activity. Its pure torture. Then the long trek back to the City Stadium back in the evening, getting caught up in traffic before arriving home at 9pm. No wonder our healths and family lives are taking a beating.

You are probably wondering why we have to walk to and from the City Stadium instead of using Muthurwa. You see, there are so many matatus that it takes about an hour just moving from City Stadium to Muthurwa. Its better to walk than risk getting to work late. Now with the long rains, things are worse. On the night of 27th March, there was a demonstration by commuters at the City Stadium angry at the unavailability of transport. On that particular night, trips that should have cost Shs30 went up to Shs70. After all these, telling people to pay an extra Shs20 for shuttle services is a plain insult.

The Muthurwa plan is a hopeless fiasco and I just thank God that Uhuru Kenyatta didnt become our president back in 2002.

I actually do live in Eastlands, and they did do something after the market caused a lot of traffic. They changed the entry point and since then things have been much smoother.

The other thing is that Muthurwa is not really Uhurus baby. He just happens to be the man in office when th market was completed. He is also not the person who sat down and planned it.