...
written by nappy , February 21, 2008

Kenyans should be careful what precedence is set by the ongoing talks. It the outcome is perceived as favoring the opposition. A similar situation is possible in 2012. Politicians like Balala should be careful what they say---After all being an island is not a bad thing. In addition, the international community is not always right. Remember that silence is also a weapon that could be more lethal than loud rhetoric!

The mass action is uncalled fo
written by kobangoshe , February 21, 2008

ODM should not rush unreasonably to get a taste of power and perform an orange coup with haste. Nobody would hate to have power or a taste of it, but there ought to be a sequence on how this works out. Placing a cat before the horse will not make the horse ride the cat. How does Parliament amend a the constitution as guided under section 47, to accommodate something that has not been decided as yet by the negotiating team and signed by their principals?

In my view Secretary General of ODM just needs to have a sixth sense and use it appropriately and not recklessly. He also should learn to live and operate outside press conferences because he seem to be obsessed with the seating for cameras in press conferences often to complain about nothing tangible and issue empty threats that land nowhere.

Dr Kofi Annan has again and again asked for patience as they seek a political solution, and both sides are working toward this commong goal. Both sides as well as Dr. Annan are happy with the progress and they are all optimistic. So where Pro. Anyang' Nyong'o and Najib Balala source their skeptisism and sense of delay from? Why do they want to rock the baot at thus stage, and cause more suffering to ordinary Kenyans when hope is so close? Who does not know negotiations are often unpredictable and one takes it stage by stage for it to be meaningful and steady over time?

...
written by manta ray , February 21, 2008

This is the tragedy of Kenya. Ignoramuses like Balala, who absolutely have no clue whatsoever about the dynamics of civil war or secessionist conflict, are allowed to froth on at the mouth by an equally ignorant and compliant sensationalist media about reducing "PNU to a Lesotho",a euphemism for confining Kikuyus to Central Kenya.
Has it occurred to Balala and his ODM sidekicks like Nyongo that before they implement such a treasonous scheme, they would personally be its first victims, and would not live to see its implementation?
It seems to me that Kibaki and PNU should call ODM's bluff and demand talks on how Kenya could be partitioned peacefully, and the outcome of the talks subjected to a referendum.

Patience pays
written by Evelyne , February 21, 2008

Whats wrong with this people? whats the rush for? They want to go back to the streets and yet they know that they will not suffer but the common man will. Why do they like bringing trouble every where can't they hold their horses till the race starts. They want parliament to resume in one weeks time to start ammending the constitution so that it can fit the excutive PM. Even before the negotiating team agrees on what is to be done they have already concluded.Balala and Nyongo should stop putting road blocks on the negotiating team.Force will not solve anything and i think where we are heading ther is hope, if the negotiating team is given enough time the better solution will get. Nothing has been concluded by the team and of course in any negotiation there must be some disagreements and thereafter there is an agreement. So please leaders should know we are watching them and we know who are power hungry and cant even wait for what is in the pot to fully cook.

Balala ni Balaa
written by Johnny B. Goode , February 21, 2008

Mr (Raila) Odinga and President Kibaki. We thought the pressure from the international community would be able to make President Kibaki and his team to be flexible and come to a middle ground but it seems mass action is the only thing they can listen to. We shall therefore revive the power of the people.

What irresponsible and reckless talk but at least the true colours are starting to come out. All these statements including Nyong'os, that "we cannot be dominated....." should be put together and published in a website so as to expose this cats for what they really are. Tribal politics and sentiments, uttered shamelessly in broad daylight, should not be allowed to stand. Especially cheap divisive tribal politics that has so far cost as 1000+ lives.

...
written by aeichener , February 21, 2008

Time to arrest the bunch.

Alexander

Poor ODM
written by Eric , February 21, 2008

Have they forgotten that mass action failed because of lack of masses? Balala is such a joke, did he mean that? What island? I mean, Kibaki and Kalonzo have Central, Nakuru, Kajiado and Laikipia in Rift Valley, Eastern and North Eastern not to mention Bungoma, parts of Kisii and some parts of Coast province. That doesn't sound like an island to me, it sounds like a big mess all so that Raila can be president!

It is funny how "angry" ODM supporters are today though they conviniently forget that RV supported Moi though he always rigged and raila "co-operated" with him when the opposition was struggling to sue him for rigging. The same Odinga who got the Kisumu plant days after joing Moi's coalation, same Odinga who said that Kibaki tosha, same Odinga who boasted how he rigged Tuju in, some Odinga who told ODM nomination candidates who were rigged out to chill!

It makes me sick to the stomach that someone like Ruto has the guts to talk about democracy, when did he convert? Can he tell us what really happend in his consticuency before and after the 2007 elections? Why were people killed and their homes burnt? Why doesn't he visit his constituents who are camping at the Show grounds?

If Kiabki shares power with this group of thugs, I will not support his government. There are many people who will withdraw their support if he chooses to give in to silly demands.

and please people, stop talking of a rigged election, you don't know that, just coz Raila said so and Kosgey "cried" to Kivuitu infront of the media doesn't make it true. Kibaki is the president, Kivuitu said so. If anyone different, they could have gone to court and make their case, not to the media.

Kofi, go to ebookers.com and get yourself a ticket to whereever your live nowadays, there are better things to do in retirement.

...
written by Masaa , February 21, 2008

I just wish every kenyan read what is written on this site. Glad to see I am not an island in my thinking.
There are lots of airheads roaming around in Kenya who need to be deported to Kismayu. I mean, how low is it for politicians still demanding mass action after the mess we have been through?

...
written by pushka , February 21, 2008

We have all experienced the school bully in one way or another. The bully believes that he is always right, and will do anything to get what he wants. It does not matter if there is an easier way to get what he wants, he will use intimidation, threats and black mail. Playing fair does not exist in his vocabulary.

ODM are begining to feel like the school bully.

First, they convinced everyone that the only possible way Kibaki would win is if he rigged. They reiterated over and over again that democracy in Kenya will only be visible if they win...and no other way. Infact, celebreations and declarations of victory started on the eve of voting day in many strong holds. The party went one better and declared their candidate the winner at one point. Now, am not saying that Kibaki legitimatly won or that he did not win...the one thing I am convinced is that neither Kibaki nor Raila have a clear mandate to lead. It was close...one of them won. For me the only thing that matters is who ever leads our nation is competent to do so and has a track record to prove his worthiness.

Secondly, when it was clear that the results had been announced and the *bully* did not get his way....they refused to seek legal redress because again they were convinced that they know what they want, and they will get it despite any civil rules available. In typical bully behaviour, they called names and shouted and screamed. When it was clear that the *protest* is getting out of hand with numerous killings going on...what did they do...The called for more *mass action*. When they were asked to calm the tempers of their constituents, we got the most bizarre response....*We can not go back to our constituents empty handed*. The purpoted hands on leader, Mr Raila, did nothing to quell the fires by declaring it is not his responsibility to control the masses and how they feel. My point is...bullies will rarely come to anyone's aid. They enjoy the spectacle of someones suffering.

Now, it seems, we are being prepared for another round of *mass action*...which effectively means loss of earnings, life and peace. In true *bully fashion*, we have seen time and time again the so called *41 versus 1 strategy* employed. Once again, ODM has employed another weapon from the bullies guide for dummies arsenal. The bully will try and isolate his victim by any means necessary. There are too many incidents to illustrate this tactic and they are all available should you do some research.

Now...I was always told the way to defeat a bully was to stand up to him. If and how PNU/Govt should do this remains to be seen, one thing is for sure though...how the govt is going about it will need to change soon. After all...ukijifanya Ngombe, usilalamika ukikamuliwa.

embrace a Kikuyu
written by Stephen Wanyama , February 21, 2008

There is more and more need for an elections to be called now. I am tired of hearing people say both sides, both sides. While Central Kenya MPs are calling for IDPs to return to their homes, people like Raila, Balala and the increasingly infantile Anyang' Nyong'o are proving themselves quite adept at the very worst bottom of the barrel politics.

Kisumu rally
With bodies of the dead carried head high and their being announced as martyrs, Raila says to a crowd that is baying for blood asking him for guns, he says to them that they should not attack Kisii, that the Kisii voted for him. Amen.

The late Daudi Were's funeral
Extremely angry and agitated crowd, justifiably so refuses to let the MPs Kikuyu wife to see his body even. So what does our super-kindly, Maina Kiai, Muthoni Wanyeki loving future Prime Minister do? He tells them that the government is seeking to pack the police force with people from one tribe. And adds that we should not tolerate it. Pouring oil on a fire? No?

Press Conference Nairobi last weekend
Anyang' Nyong'o declares that we, whatever shitts he is speaking for, cannot allow ourselves to be dominated politically, economically and in business by one tribe. More oil? In case you were confused about who to attack, here's a hint, and his a professor, so he knows what he is talking about.

Yesterday, Balala declares that they will be looking to corral Kibaki's supporters into a Bantustan somewhere in the middle of the country. I am taking bets, odds 9-1 Maina Kiai will say nothing about this, just as he said nothing about the other ones. Kikuyus do not have human rights, you see. He is one of them, so you see he must be right. He is a brave self-less man.

So while people are talking peace, looking for a way out, the new prime minister and his officers are looking for ways to end the Kenyan experiment. But he wants to be the Prime Minister of Kikuyus? A Prime Minister who along with his party, enjoys inciting his countrymen against the 25% of his population?
Yet, some people are still neutral! Both sides are bad, eh?

The government is arresting Mungiki, ODM is collecting armed youths in the forest and blessing them, ODM is erecting sign-posts saying welcome to the Republic of the Rift Valley and Balala is endorsing this separation. Yes, let's all be neutral, history will remember us for our neutrality.

As the ODM keeps playing its hateful anthems, we must show that we are different, that across our ethnicities we harbour none of their destructive spirit, for that is the only place their hate will take us, to the total annihilation of Kenya. So then, if you love your country, go on and embrace a Kikuyu, embrace a Luo, and reject the ODM's 3 years of hate.

Isindu, I hope you sleep well at night.

What are we going to do about
written by Jackie , February 21, 2008

What really irks me at this point is we have all seen & heard what all these men are capable of,selfish and greedy not even fit to lead a household. My question is when we will stop sitting behind our computers and do something about our country? Kenya is neither Odinga's or Kibaki's property they should be consulting with us not hiding away in expensive hotels discussing our fate while we wait as they each try and reach their selfish ends.

If ODM claims they can mobilise a million-strong to bring about revolution what about us? The right thinking wananchi who have seen firsthand the kind of damage this lot can bring. We who have everything to loose if we let this madness go on, we who have come to our senses and realised it is never going to work the way they both want? When are we going to take back our country, demand sanity and reason. When are we going to stop sitting on the fence and watch this two grind our country to the ground.

We have the wisdom and the ability to mobilise ourselves better than them. We have the masses and if we have a true passion for our country i know we can make our voices heard. Its about time we stop analysing what they say, we stop hating and fighting one another and demand to be heard as Kenyans. Our country is not a piece of meat..its my home now and for my children in the future.

coalition of love
written by Amir Ibrahim , February 21, 2008

I would like us all to consider something here. Is it just possible that Balala knows something we do not know? I mean he is not exactly a demagogue or a man with a history of making such comments. So why would he make such a statement, and in broad daylight too? I mean just think of what the damage would be in the US for example when this is broadcast there?

People are being denied visas for what exactly while Raila, Nyong'o, Balala, Ruto and company strut the stage and we get opeds in the New York Times endorsing the ODM? People like Maina Kiai or Muthoni Wanyeki or John Githongo, where are they reading from, who organised these people? As a friend of mine pointed out, it is not at all a natural conclusion to come to when you say that there is no ethnic cleansing in Kenya. We have been calling such activities ethnic cleansing since we were children, what has changed now? Why is Maina Kiai in Washington DC sitting pretty while the fire he helped stoke burns?

Why did Maina Kiai completely ignore the church burning only to start protesting about the mobilisation of Mungiki? Why do their reports only speak of the irregularities in PNU regions and never the ones in ODM regions?

Why was Jendayi Frazer so speedily corrected? I mean it is ethnic cleansing, that is a mere fact, one with plenty of precedent behind it. Why would all these obviously very well informed people be speaking from this page? Why so adamant about power-sharing, and why on earth can we not have just now a referendum on Kenya? All the people who want to split our country can go on one side, and those who do not can vote the other. I mean Kenyans have to grow up now, no longer can we hide behind our tribes or anything, this is about the survival of Kenya like I said last week.

Yes, Wanyama in the face of ODM hate, embrace a Kikuyu, One Kenya, always.

Chest Thumping
written by Aggey , February 21, 2008

"The country needs reconciliation and humility more than the chest thumping that we continue to see from these politicians." A very apt quote from Ken Opalo's weblog.
I strongly believe that this not only applies to our politicians but to us as individuals as well.

...
written by Muciimi Mbatia , February 21, 2008

If this is true, then we can say that ODM walked into the government boardroom clad in a baklava, whipped out a shotgun from underneath its overcoat, fired at the ceiling, and pointed the gun at the gathering. The members were forced to sign the check under duress.

It is a replication, at the national level, of Kalenjin Warrior tactics of raiding and grabbing.

The question is whether ODM is the only party with the monopoly of raiders and grabbers.

Perhaps ODM-K, Safina, KANU, and all the other 300 political parties in Kenya should get guns and exact their share of power.

This is the new, democratic way of winning power. The democracy of the gun - or is it of bows and arrows?

...
written by babadirector , February 21, 2008

KENYA HAS OIL!!!! This is the only reason the Americans want ODM and Raila to get rid of the Chinese for them! Don't be surprised if a major announcement on discovery of commercially viable quantities of oil is made next week!

re:
written by manta ray , February 21, 2008

If this is true, then we can say that ODM walked into the government boardroom clad in a baklava, whipped out a shotgun from underneath its overcoat, fired at the ceiling, and pointed the gun at the gathering. The members were forced to sign the check under duress.

It is a replication, at the national level, of Kalenjin Warrior tactics of raiding and grabbing.

The question is whether ODM is the only party with the monopoly of raiders and grabbers.

Perhaps ODM-K, Safina, KANU, and all the other 300 political parties in Kenya should get guns and exact their share of power.

This is the new, democratic way of winning power. The democracy of the gun - or is it of bows and arrows?

Please remember that a deal is not done until it is done. Regardless, the proposed Premiership will depend on what powers it will have, if any.
If it is perceived that Kibaki has indeed ceded executive authority to Raila Odinga as a result of blackmail from both ODM and the Western powers, there are those who may then be inclined to take matters into their own hands in order to reverse the situation, and Kibaki could even be overthrown.
ODM, Raila and the likes of Nyong`o and Balala have no idea what fires they are stoking, and circumstances can take a completely different dimension in a way they least expect.
They should learn from Kenya`s history right from the times of Grogan and Meinertzhagen.

...
written by newafroguy , February 21, 2008

How nice this groupthink. Let's all just be complacent with our half truths and comfort zones and safety in the great numbers exhibited here. Way to go folks.

Embrace the future.
written by Isindu Mwangaza , February 21, 2008

Isindu, I hope you sleep well at night.

What is the long term solution? What guarantees us all a place in Kenya? The issue is not ODM'd to resolve singlehandedly, but in practical partisanship of PNU. A sincere look at posterity and what it would take to avert the anarchy we witnessed. I'll sleep well when I'm no more, for now, I struggle with the impediment that is PNU. I'm cautiously optimistic and therefore open to reason, not scorn.

Huh?
written by raj , February 21, 2008

I am just wondering why these guys are calling for a change in the constitution.....We do not need to be reminded who led the NO vote why does it now sound good to ODM now....this is just a bunch of selfish people after their own interstes....what would happen when they are defeated again in 2012?? yet again who says ODM will still be surviving in 2012?? I sincerly pray that they are scattered in all directions!

a case for visa ban?
written by magothe , February 21, 2008

Hope those who are issuing visa bans like confetti will consider these gentlemen here. Kenyan Athletes found to have funded and sometimes commanded Rift Valley violence, says survey by International Crisis Group.

Once again, I hope we are not going to have an executive PM created for the demagogue from Lake Victoria. While accepting that we shouldn't have an overarching executive president, having two seats of power within the government is impossible.

Can the Kenyan Economy handle
written by Bobby , February 21, 2008

Can the Kenyan economy handle another premier position? Seriously this position comes with a department to support it, we barely support all the departments active right now. To make matters worse why in gods Name don't they consider reducing the presidents powers instead of creating a PM. i SWEAR I LOOSE THE ELECTIONS IN 2012 AM GOING TO WRANGLE WITH KIBAKI.

Someone asked
written by Bobby , February 21, 2008

Someone asked Why don't we leave our computers and Enact a vote of no confidence for Kibaki and Raila, the answer is simple most people are AFRAID. No one wants to push the issue any further than its already gone, But realistically speaking this would be the best time. People need to say we are fed up, and DEMAND CHANGE.

re: Poor ODM
written by Wuod Aketch , February 21, 2008

If Kibaki shares power with this group of thugs, I will not support his government. There are many people who will withdraw their support if he chooses to give in to silly demands.

What are you waiting for to shed that support? Like Mobutu put it, Olinga olinga te - "que vous le vouliez ou non", like it or not, ODM will share power with the government - period

re: coalition of love
written by Shaolin , February 21, 2008

I would like us all to consider something here. Is it just possible that Balala knows something we do not know? I mean he is not exactly a demagogue or a man with a history of making such comments. So why would he make such a statement, and in broad daylight too? I mean just think of what the damage would be in the US for example when this is broadcast there?

People are being denied visas for what exactly while Raila, Nyong'o, Balala, Ruto and company strut the stage and we get opeds in the New York Times endorsing the ODM? People like Maina Kiai or Muthoni Wanyeki or John Githongo, where are they reading from, who organised these people? As a friend of mine pointed out, it is not at all a natural conclusion to come to when you say that there is no ethnic cleansing in Kenya. We have been calling such activities ethnic cleansing since we were children, what has changed now? Why is Maina Kiai in Washington DC sitting pretty while the fire he helped stoke burns?

Why did Maina Kiai completely ignore the church burning only to start protesting about the mobilisation of Mungiki? Why do their reports only speak of the irregularities in PNU regions and never the ones in ODM regions?

Why was Jendayi Frazer so speedily corrected? I mean it is ethnic cleansing, that is a mere fact, one with plenty of precedent behind it. Why would all these obviously very well informed people be speaking from this page? Why so adamant about power-sharing, and why on earth can we not have just now a referendum on Kenya? All the people who want to split our country can go on one side, and those who do not can vote the other. I mean Kenyans have to grow up now, no longer can we hide behind our tribes or anything, this is about the survival of Kenya like I said last week.

Yes, Wanyama in the face of ODM hate, embrace a Kikuyu, One Kenya, always.

Tell you what Amir, what Maina Kiai and Muthoni Wanyeki are doing is not different from what the other NGOs are doing. I think the mistake we as Kenyans did was to let this western voices ( NGOS are)take over our country either through the infamous IRI or whatever other name it goes by. They have entrenched themselves and I think the time is right for right thinking Kenyans to start fighting this external voices. They only scream to justify the monies they get. and now as we speak their pockets are full of change since the UK for example is giving money to 'their reps' as oppossed to the giving it to the GOV. I once volunteered with NGOs and what I saw sickened me. Its all about reports and proposals and I will tell you what anybody who is truthful about NGOs will tell you. that 80% and sometimes more goes to administrative expenses, aca, salaries and houserents for directors ect ect. The amount of corruption exercised is shocking. I will also inform you that Amnesty International, where Maina Kiai worked for a long time is notorious for supporting US policy. I will tell you that in China when the government changes policies to keep off the Americans Amnesty is the first one to scream against the chinese gov. human rights record. As in we are under siege of a very evil nature. If you see NGO you should run for your life. It makes my skin crawl that such filthy elements are speaking in the name of Kenyans now.

This forum needs to extend to the ground. The voice of reason here needs to be populated amongst the restless people who are pulling their hairs wondering what the best solution is. The country has been stolen and we need to get it back....

Cheers!!

Broken records
written by mkosakabila , February 21, 2008

Listen to yourselves, whining and complaining like ODM types, yet you try to so hard to set yourselves apart. As Jacky suggests, the issue is not about analyzing and reanalyzing what ODM is saying, but to start to do something to counter the unfolding events. ODM should be met, measure for measure, and more!. Protest is one way, and there are good reasons to organize an anti ODM or pro PNU protest (as you wish), like these:
1. Against Raila and ODM hate speech, as that will derail the negotiation process anyway (there are many examples to showcase this)
2. Against the denial of ethnic cleansing by human rights watch dogs in Kenya, including their overall bias in favor of ODM, as this denies the human rights of some people (there seem to be examples of this even here on KI)
3. Against power sharing, as it seems unlikely that a favorable agreement will be reached, besides theres concern amongst the 4million and more that voted for Emilio, that any such arrangement will be an impediment to smooth democratic governance, and will create even greater uncertainty over the short term (a couple of posts have tackled this issue)
4. Protest against the very obvious preference that the West and ultimately the Koffi Annan mediation team has for ODM, seeing that it is likely to disenfranchise those Kenyan people that support the other side, and will undermine whatever advances the conflicting groups might be making.

The demands that follow from these protestations are self evident.

It also seems to me as though that weirdo Alfred Mutua is not doing anything concrete to get the PNU side of the story out. It behooves those with journalistic talent and contacts to be more aggressive and use their links with the international media to let it be known that there are two sides to the story, if not to outright cast doubt in various publics of the credibility of ODM leadership. Clearly, that has been a major failing of PNU.

re: embrace a Kikuyu
written by James Watt , February 21, 2008

There is more and more need for an elections to be called now. I am tired of hearing people say both sides, both sides..... Yes, let's all be neutral, history will remember us for our neutrality.
As the ODM keeps playing its hateful anthems, we must show that we are different, that across our ethnicities we harbour none of their destructive spirit, for that is the only place their hate will take us, to the total annihilation of Kenya. So then, if you love your country, go on and embrace a Kikuyu, embrace a Luo, and reject the ODM's 3 years of hate.

Isindu, I hope you sleep well at night.

Add to all those the infamous line by one William Ole Ntimama,that the Kikuyu should lie low like envelopes.
Seriously can't believe these people are getting away with these Inane statements. These people, need to be sued before a court of law and they should then be given a heavy fine or a jail term as well as being barred from holding public office.

The nothing more ridiculous than setting a PM post to appease Mr. Odinga. First of all the current make up of our parliament promises a very unstable government. Remember that there are 40 petitions from the last elections, as well as 6 vacant seats. At the end of all this, the majority in parliament could change considerably. So if the government gets a majority, do they get to vote out Mr.Odinga and scrap the PM position altogether or put their own man/woman in there? What happens when Mr.Odinga is then removed from power by a fairly legal mechanism,does the country then implode? Or this guy now have security of tenure for 5 years no matter what.
I'm 100% sure that Kibaki won that election. Raila has since shamelessly used violence as a weapon of choice to squeeze his way to power. On the other hand he has put a smooth faade on the international front.A position that has been strengthened by the completely inept ECK and its handling of the last general elections,for one thing is clear. Without the EU observers report, things would be looking a bit different now. Add to the circus, courtesy of ODM that we witnessed at KICC forcing Kiviutu to be forced to read results from his small office without international media presence. That was also a loss in the PR department.
We can't reward losers of elections for such actions, for it has now set a dangerous precedent. Add to that we are likely to see the activities recorded at the aftermath of this elections in future elections. Rapists,arsonists,looters and thugs of all manner including those taking over entire houses and even estates, have been given a free reign to operate. Bare in mind that the next election will even be more challenging.The number of voters will increase doubtless and the number of candidates will also probably increase. Already this elections was a quantum leap from the last one, which might explain why the ECK was so hopeless. The number of voters increased by 4 million and the numbers of aspirants in the parliamentary race was ridiculously high,was especially in Nairobi. There race is likely to be just as close and the loser will have little incentive of accepting defeat particularly because all that is needed to force your way to power is a small army of bandits and the sympathetic ear of the international community. By extension do we need to go through this charade called elections anyway? Can't we arrive at a solution where after Mr.Kibaki's departure in 2012, Raila moves in as president, Kalonzo takes over as PM and we can have a nice merry go round until all this thugs have had a chance to be president? Only thing I'd insist on is the 2 5 year term limit which we can instead convert to one term of 8 or 7 years. That way we'll be avoiding at least 1000 lives,lots of displacements and property through lack of elections. Seriously, not even democracy is worth that much blood for me.

...
written by Cicero , February 21, 2008

what is the solution to Kenya's current problems? it depends on who you ask.

-some think kikuyus are the problem and hence fumigating the roaches does the trick.

-some think the problem is that they have not had their turn to "eat yet.

-some think the problem is there ever being a time which will not be theirs to "eat".

-and some think the problem is the leaders with visions that perfect myopia and the willingness of the masses to submit themselves to their cultish hold.

...
written by Mr. Vikii , February 21, 2008

I have no reason whatsoever to support a fraud on my country. If kibaki appoints some of the ODM goons into his cabinet, I can give him the benefit of the doubt as long as he wields the ultimate power---firing those who misbehave. But if the arrangement they want to have is one where he shares power with the United States of America (through a proxy), I will be a very proud member of the opposition and every well meaning Kenyan should.

I did not know Washington had the right to impose a leadership on the people of Kenya. They have obviously preyed on Kenya's preliterate mobs to create the impression that they are champions of democracy. I didn't know politicians who call themselves patriots would auction Kenya for 30 pieces of Silver. I pity Kenyans, yes I do.

re: re: embrace a Kikuyu
written by Wuod Aketch , February 21, 2008

I'm 100% sure that Kibaki won that election.

Do you have more info on the past elections than the ECK? Please tell us where you get your evidence from.

Wuoyi
written by a guest , February 21, 2008

PNU sycophants!

Deal with it brothers, on the ground, change must happen...mpende msipende!

...
written by manta ray , February 21, 2008

Raila has now accepted to be a non-executive Prime Minister with some yet to be defined responsibilities. For all intents and purposes, a weakened politician no matter what you call it, and he brought it all on himself. Raila is finished as the pre-eminent Luo politician who matters. Sooner or later before the next election, challengers to his supremacy from within the community will emerge with an eye to the post 2012 political dispensation.
The same thing will happen to Ruto. Do not forget, Moi is still alive and will be telling the Kalenjin i told you so.

We are miles apart!
written by Isindu Mwangaza , February 21, 2008

I have no reason whatsoever to support a fraud on my country. If kibaki appoints some of the ODM goons into his cabinet, I can give him the benefit of the doubt as long as he wields the ultimate power---firing those who misbehave.

It's interesting to note just how apart we are on this issue. Kibaki will not be Kenya's 'president' for ever. You act as though the Presidency is yours to keep.

Let's be pragmatic and assume the circumstances were quite the inverse, would you hold the same position? Look, I'm not attempting to dissuade you from your vested interest, all I'm attempting to highlight that you need to think beyond Kibaki. You need to think beyond Raila and you certainly need to think beyond yourself.

re:
written by muhana , February 22, 2008

KENYA HAS OIL!!!! This is the only reason the Americans want ODM and Raila to get rid of the Chinese for them! Don't be surprised if a major announcement on discovery of commercially viable quantities of oil is made next week!

Interesting! Does anyone else agree? I know there's some company that's supposed to start prospecting for oil this April. Could it be possible that maybe the government and ODM know something we don't with regards to the presence (or absense) of oil in our country?

What are we going to do ab
written by Wuod Aketch , February 22, 2008

WuodAketch, you really are on your last legs here. This platform exists for people who can think and reason, not for trolls. You will be banned the very next idiotic comment you make. Eds.

...
written by Mr. Vikii , February 22, 2008

WuodAketch you cannot keep harping on the same thing. Eastern Province voted for Kibaki and so do Nairobi and North Eastern. We have people in Western Province like the Bukusu who refused the idea of Raila ever leading them. The same thing can be said of the Kuria and the Kisii in Nyanza and the Taita in Coast. Mwai Kibaki beat Raila Odinga in 109 constituencies out of 209. All these constituencies are spread all over Kenya. Why are you in so much hurry to promote secession?
Not you also Vikii, this is certainly not the place for hate-mongering. Eds.

...
written by njau_ndirangu , February 22, 2008

It feels like we are going round in circles. Raila will accept the position he rejected fervently in the referendum.Thats what happens to leaders with no vision.Mtaka yote hukosa yote.

re: Broken records
written by Shaolin , February 22, 2008

Listen to yourselves, whining and complaining like ODM types, yet you try to so hard to set yourselves apart. As Jacky suggests, the issue is not about analyzing and reanalyzing what ODM is saying, but to start to do something to counter the unfolding events. It behooves those with journalistic talent and contacts to be more aggressive and use their links with the international media to let it be known that there are two sides to the story, if not to outright cast doubt in various publics of the credibility of ODM leadership. Clearly, that has been a major failing of PNU.

I second that. Never should we be caught with our pants down. I am game. If anyone wants to start something going please please let me know. We have analiysed and now we are fully armed with the truth I think its time to 'do something about it' so that this is never never again repeated. When ODM thinks its over we should be starting ours. like before he warms his PM seat which He has forced down our throats courtesy of the west. For the west its business for us its our livelihood which I think we should protect by all means.

Let Kenya Rise from the Ashes!!

La Luta Cotinua!

...
written by pushka , February 22, 2008

Nyongo.s citation of past instances where the constitution was changed on a whim are quite sad. Surely the learned chap must concur that those days must be gone and forgotten. After all, his mantra (he would have up believe) is of change and true democracy. Why is he and his band of merry men so quick To discard first the judiciary, then the executive and now the constitution.

Time to criminalize hate speec
written by Nyabs , February 22, 2008

Thank you the Editor people like Wuod Aketch should be blocked.

Surely how can a man like Balala utter such words. Do you think getting a PM's seat will sort the problems in this country? It will have done nothing. It is clear now to those who have been rejecting that the violence was not ethnic. The ODMs objected when it was pointed out but now that they feel there's delay and their hearts are burning with the will to finish off this one tribe, they are bursting out carelessly. We are not happy with how they are talking but on the other hand I am happy that they are talking it out themselves, now we are able to know who were behind the fighting and how that came about. More time is needed for the negotiating team. The Parliament should not be opened until the negotiators agree on the way forward. Another thing where did Orange originate from? Rejection of the constitution. And how comes the same people who rejected it are now in a hurry to make some few amendments which are very critical without our approval. They have to be serious.This country is not for Kibaki or Raila and his team.It is our country. Its the high time we start realising who is for all and who is for killing some and leading others. Lets not assume important things here. I hope Balala and Nyong'o have their Visa binned.

I think it is about time we passed law that criminalize ethnic labelling and demonization and held politicians accountable for their utterances.

Rwanda, after the very painful experiences of war and genocide, have such laws and people are routinely hauled before the courts for expressing genocidal ideology and divisionism.

I do not know whether Nyong'o and Balala understand the full import of their utterances and how they are interpreted by the panga wielding goons in the slums and in the villages. In case they are in doubt, the statement"we will not let one community dominate us" translates into " let us kill the kikuyus before they fully dominate us'

Balala's statement of isolating some community into an island like Lesotho translates into " Let us kill and burn the properties of the kikuyus and confine them to central Kenya"

Surely, all right thinking people should stand against such utterances. The loss of another life, regardless of where the person comes from, should not be tolerated and people who want to be national leaders should be held accountable for what they say.

Such utterances are laying the foundation stones for a genocide. A study of genocides reveals a pattern:

One: Leadership emerges that potrays itself as fighting for the rights of sections of the communities that have been marginalized by a dominant community, eeringly similar to what sections of the ODM leadership is doing.

Second, isolation of the people of the people to be killed and their being blamed for all problems the country faces. This talk of certain communities dominating others does exactly that.

Third: a dehumanization of the people to be killed. You will remember how some communities in Kenya were characterized as being bow legged and with brown teeth. SMS were also spreading around in Kenya depicting a certain Kenyan community to be inhuman in the manner they chose to kill their opponents.

Fourth: Selective killings. Since the 1990s, we have seen the killings of not only the kikuyu community, but other communities in the Rift Valley. What these killings have done is to demystify killing, making it look normal and justifiable. End result? people get used to killing and when they are called to kill larger numbers of people, including women and children, it is no longer a big issue. In Rwanda, upto 1994, killings of women and children were not common. But a decision was made to deal with the Tutsi problem once and for all and women and children were also killed in a bid to eliminate any Tutsi and forestall any possibility of there being a Tutsi generation. In the recent killings in Kenya, we see women and children being killed by communities that have, traditionally, spared women and children even in times of war.

Fifth: impunity. People have killed, nothing has happened to them, they have not been brought to account for their actions. We have all seen on our TV screens how warriors are willing to put a show in front of the cameras. They are not afraid of being arrested and feel that they are justified for doing what they did. We are also having billboards welcoming people to the Republic of the Rift Valley.

Sixth: Use of mass media to spread messages of hate. The ethnic based FM stations are really doing an excellent job here. They might even surpass the infamous Radio des Milles Collines in Rwanda.

What I am saying in effect? That the foundation of a genocide against a section or sections of the Kenyan community has been laid and unless an amicable agreement is reached, it might happen.

As sensible citizens of this country, we need to stand up against leaders who are funding the killings, we need to loudly and roundly condemn leaders who seek to isolate and demonize sections of the Kenyan community, and we need to pass laws that criminalize hate speech and divisionism.

Short of that, we will not have a country. Just genocide memorial sites.

...
written by aeichener , February 22, 2008

These news are very, very disconcerting.

I am quite in favour of power sharing, but this proposal is definitely not acceptable. :-(

ODM should, IMO, be granted a number of ministerial portfolios (including important ones), but Raila as a person should never get get a grain of power. Much less a prime minister post.

Maybe the only measure to avoid this is a declaration of emergency law now.

Alexander

re:
written by aeichener , February 22, 2008

I would like to propose a mass action of sorts, not the kind that involves street marches but the one that provokes the intellect.

Sounds good.

And in which country would you propose this, pray?

Alexander

re:
written by manta ray , February 22, 2008

Raila is finished as the pre-eminent Luo politician who matters. Sooner or later before the next election, challengers to his supremacy from within the community will emerge with an eye to the post 2012 political dispensation.

The challengers are appearing earlier than i thought. Now ODM councillors(mostly Luos) have apparently defied Raila and disagreed with his imposition of Esther Passaris as Nairobi Mayor, have gone ahead to team up with PNU councillors(mostly Kikuyus), and are set to elect Majiwa(a Luo) as Nairobi Mayor. Whoever said Kikuyus could never elect a Luo?
It is is going to be interesting how Raila handles this defiance of his authority so early in his new role as PM designate. What will it say for his authority, prestige and status as PM? Will he, for instance, be able to invoke this authority on Kibaki hardliners like Michuki or Karua, or ambitious individuals like Saitoti or Uhuru? We truly are in for very interesting times.

Kenya Has Oil
written by Aggey , February 22, 2008

On the issue of Kenya having oil, you could refer to the K24 interview with prominent Kenyan lawyer Kiben Mungai (dated last week).
He's on record as saying that oil deposits were indeed found in North Eastern and Coast provices. Apparently, US and Chinese companies had both submitted tenders to drill....China was awarded the contract and is now in the process of setting up the machinery in the aforementioned regions.

Mr. Mungai raised this as one of the reasons why the US is pushing for a coalition governement: perhaps as a way to have the contract retracted??

Your guess is as good as mine

Is it clear now?
written by Evelyne , February 22, 2008

Thank you the Editor people like Wuod Aketch should be blocked.

(It is editorial policy that we will rather moderate or delete postings than ban persons, but Wuod Aketch seems to be stretching it a bit as of lately. We certainly welcome an outspoken ODM voice, as long as it abides by KI's quality standards, and brings forth content and reasoned arguments. Eds.)

Surely how can a man like Balala utter such words. Do you think getting a PM's seat will sort the problems in this country? It will have done nothing. It is clear now to those who have been rejecting that the violence was not ethnic. The ODMs objected when it was pointed out but now that they feel there's delay and their hearts are burning with the will to finish off this one tribe, they are bursting out carelessly. We are not happy with how they are talking but on the other hand I am happy that they are talking it out themselves, now we are able to know who were behind the fighting and how that came about. More time is needed for the negotiating team. The Parliament should not be opened until the negotiators agree on the way forward. Another thing where did Orange originate from? Rejection of the constitution. And how comes the same people who rejected it are now in a hurry to make some few amendments which are very critical without our approval. They have to be serious.This country is not for Kibaki or Raila and his team.It is our country. Its the high time we start realising who is for all and who is for killing some and leading others. Lets not assume important things here. I hope Balala and Nyong'o have their Visa binned.

...
written by smukwana , February 22, 2008

I would like to propose a mass action of sorts, not the kind that involves street marches but the one that provokes the intellect.
There are three truths out there, the ODM truth, the PNU truth, and the actual truth that stands independent of what the two sides say. It's incumbent upon us who feel strongly about preserving our country to tell that truth. I'm open for ideas and how to do it.

ODM to have their way
written by Kim G , February 22, 2008

Why is it easier for the international community and the world media to beleive ODM? Arent we forgetting that ODM has had five years to perfect its media and information machine? Didn't Raila Odinga begin his presidential campaigns in January 2003? Is it any wonder that there's denial of ethnic cleansing? I've just followed one of the links quoted and even the much respected International Crisis Group has refused to accept that there's ethnic cleansing in Kenya. Instead, the ICG report mostly focuses on police violence without examining the circumstances involved such as rioting, looting, etc.

An ODM premiership will be a reality. What we as sober citizens can do is to maintain the disemmination of the truth. Lets not give up and soon enough the world will wake up and listen. We can look for peaceful methods of resistance, such as boycotting the next elections like the Sunnis of Iraq did in the first elections after the 2003 invasion.

hat is Raila up to?
written by Eric , February 22, 2008

So he left the country to Nigeria and the then this...

A think tank said Thursday that armed groups on opposing sides of the political and ethnic strife are mobilizing for new attacks and serious violence could erupt again if peace talks fail.

"Calm has partly returned but the situation remains highly volatile," the Brussels, Belgium-based International Crisis Group said in a report. "Armed groups are still mobilizing on both sides."

CNN website (22.2.200

ICG report
written by mkosakabila , February 22, 2008

Kim G, appreciate your thoughts on this. Has anyone else read this report? If so, what do you think?
C.Ramaphosa is on its advisory board too.

Crying victim
written by Wuod Aketch , February 22, 2008

(...) Wuod, go play in traffic. Eds.

Balala\'s Comments
written by Simba , February 22, 2008

I read Balala's comments the other day and all I could think of was "what a moronic comment." The idea of splitting Kenya into multiple nation states is a pathetic idea sympotamatic of people so desperate for power that they will split the very entity that they claim to want to lead. Any politician, on any side of the PNU or ODM divide, who makes such a statement deserves our collective contempt.

There are three major reasons why I think these secessionary notions are completely misplaced. First, the world around us is becoming a smaller place. European countries are collobrating successfully to expand the EU, and in so doing they are expanding their economic and political clout while essentially rendering old borders as mere markings on paper. The United States is another example of different states coming together to form one collective powerful entity. India and China already have huge populations and land masses, and they are the successes of our times. In the context of these developments, it is absolutely preposterous that our supposed leaders are suggesting that we should break up our nation into smaller entities. We should be pushing for an expansion of the East African Community, not the creation of Kikuyustan.

Secondly, its about precedent. We cannot accept that the only solution to political disagreements is the alienation of one or two types of people into their own supposedly homogeneous nation states. What will happen tomorrow, when say the inevitable Raila and Balala disagreement on some political issue happens? Will the nation again split up into Luo-Land and Coast? This is not a way of solving problems, and you need look no further than King Solomon's story to see that. Divide and rule is not a legitimate mantra for national politics, and its time these leaders understand that.

My final problem with Balala's comments is the tone. Balala's tone implies a bigger problem with todays politics in Kenya which is obsesses with the accumulation of power at any costs, and this is something that people on both sides are guilty of. He has no right to make such ridiculous suggestions, and as a national leader he should be ashamed of himself. He could have proposed that this idea be put up to a referendum, and that would have been acceptable, but as a threat and as a bullying tactic it is unacceptable to me. It also proves beyond doubt that Kenya is ready for change. Balala and Raila are not our saviours, and quite frankly neither are Kibaki and Karua. They all think the same way. To them, you and I are but disposable pawns in their domination games. We should be forming a party and electing leaders who are educated, mature and think about Kenya first. Unfortunately, what we have is a bunch of old corrupt geezers who think this country is theirs to loot and rape and who think that our peoples lives are worthless.

What are we going to do about
written by jackie , February 22, 2008

As stated earlier talk is cheap.Its about time we put all the debating aside and get together for the sake of our country.

I am so ready to converge with Kenyans of the same mind who are unselfish,unbiased and are dead to hatred and blame for suggestions and recommendations on how we as KENYANS can make our voices heard.

We have brilliant minds on this forum and am sure by starting small we can encourage the rest of our brothers & sisters to cast fear aside and agree on an action and follow it through.

After all is said and done it will be us left to pick up the pieces when Kibaki & Raila are long gone having greedily shred our country to pieces just to fulfil their selfish ends. Think about it everyone.

Any ideas on how to get the ball rolling am all ears.

....and just on the point of doing something,please continue to offer help & encouragement to the Internally displaced Kenyans and if you in a better position to do more please do so.

re: Balala\'s Comments
written by Paul Kimani , February 22, 2008

Balala and Raila are not our saviours, and quite frankly neither are Kibaki and Karua. They all think the same way. To them, you and I are but disposable pawns in their domination games. We should be forming a party and electing leaders who are educated, mature and think about Kenya first. Unfortunately, what we have is a bunch of old corrupt geezers who think this country is theirs to loot and rape and who think that our peoples lives are worthless.

What Balala said was criminal. He deserves to be charged before a court of law and be shamed from ever holding public office again. It's incredible haven't sparked any outrage whatsoever from our media.

You can strike out educated and just stick to mature and think of Kenyan first. Unfortunately two things that are very hard to quantify. Am sure the four people you mentioned are quite educated. Why would you bank in youth, while the ones committing all these atrocities? What we should be doing is building strong independent institutions. We don't need to reinvent the wheel. We need a strong and independent judiciary for one. The less we rely on politicians the better.

Citizen complaint
written by kanyoni ka Nja , February 22, 2008

Can an ordinary citizen like me go to court and start a case against Balala and Nyong'o over these irresponsible hate-filled statements or does it have to come from the police?

re: Citizen complaint
written by Isindu Mwangaza , February 25, 2008

Can an ordinary citizen like me go to court and start a case against Balala and Nyong'o over these irresponsible hate-filled statements or does it have to come from the police?

Can a citizen like me go to court to over Kibaki's irresponsible civil coup?

Look, to every action, theres an equal and devastating reaction. That has been Kenyan politics and the victims are no less Kenyan than you are.

In some sections of Kenya, forget Nairobi's calm, the tension is alive. A great majority do no recognize Kibaki and that is fact. How does one prevail upon these people that indeed he is if not one of their own?

Let's not confuse this perceived authority as marshaling descent, it is the general public that must be convinced that all is well and that progress is within sight.

The impasse is here with us and while you ponder taking action against those you perceive as haters, why not be sincere about why the so called haters are dancing feverishly around a bonfire of discontent? Do you presume that their actions are not valid? and if so, would you presume that all is well?

There's legal precedent in Kenya but theres also judicial malfeasance that guarantees a mockery of the proceedings. Tale you pick! is Kenya in your opinion just fine with exception to a few perceived hate talkers?

We shouldn't look back at the Kenya we had with nostalgia because we do have a genuine opportunity to make it even better. will Kibaki understand this much because I doubt when we talk about the future, he counts himself in the picture after all, he's that old! Either way, it abouts Kenya, not Kibaki.

that bad smell
written by Stephen Wanyama , February 25, 2008

Not a word of condemnation at Balala's sentiments then, little Mwangaza? Kenya will be better, much better when little minds like yours and Balala's think before they send messages to their mouths. I have looked through your little post again and I find little of the contrition, humanity or sympathy that one would suspect from a responsible human being. Quit with all the waffle, you little boy are a hater of Kenya.

The impasse is here with us and while you ponder taking action against those you perceive as haters, why not be sincere about why the so called haters are dancing feverishly around a bonfire of discontent? Do you presume that their actions are not valid? and if so, would you presume that all is well?

Do you want to take Kibaki to court? Well he has been inviting you and your fellow hatemongers to do that from day 1, remember? Dude, Yes You Can!! Mpeleke Kibaki Mahakamani! You are most despicable human being.

...
written by manta ray , February 25, 2008

Can a citizen like me go to court to over Kibaki's irresponsible civil coup?

What are you waiting for? Go ahead. It is your responsibility to do so.

We shouldn't look back at the Kenya we had with nostalgia because we do have a genuine opportunity to make it even better. will Kibaki understand this much because I doubt when we talk about the future, he counts himself in the picture after all, he's that old! Either way, it abouts Kenya, not Kibaki.

Quite clearly, nobody informed the ODM councillors who voted with their PNU colleagues to reject Majiwa for Nairobi Mayor to get with the programme. The ODM message of "Change" did not quite get through to some. Or were you all supporting different agendas of the ODM all along? Why indeed were some of those ODM councillors in tears? Quite a hilarious spectacle it was! Perhaps it was because they can see the ODM dream or vision, i.e the great opportunity to tuck into the pork, seemingly slipping away?
Very interesting these ODM "liberators".

re: that bad smell
written by Isindu Mwangaza , February 25, 2008

Not a word of condemnation at Balala's sentiments then, little Mwangaza? Kenya will be better, much better when little minds like yours and Balala's think before they send messages to their mouths. I have looked through your little post again and I find little of the contrition, humanity or sympathy that one would suspect from a responsible human being. Quit with all the waffle, you little boy are a hater of Kenya.

My little post is devoid of irrational exuberance. In my initial contribution I was categorical about the bile spitting phenomenon that is the politician. It would amount to redundancy had I to repeat myself. Furthermore, as a "Constant Gardner" of this forum, you clearly know where I stand on political rhetoric be it from politicians and especially from me.

The query above is rhetorical and is directed at the previous post. I would suggest however that you weigh your reaction to everything that flies off your logical radar, you just might miss the point; just as PNU is missing the point.

Again, its not about where you stand and in whose favor your devour rebuttals, it is about Kenya and should be about Kenya. So go ahead a belittle my little post; it serves no credence nor purpose to do so other than serve your ego: To which I say, bravo!

re: Citizen complaint
written by RC , February 26, 2008

Do you presume that their actions are not valid? and if so, would you presume that all is well?

Balala and ODM may have very real and understandable grievances but irresponsible comments like his do absolutely nothing to make the situation better. If you are honest with yourself, they entrench the hatred for Kikuyus (which is perhaps their aim in the first place). I do not know about you but I want a leader with the unity and reconciliation of Kenya at the forefront of his/her agenda.

...
written by a guest , February 26, 2008

Zero-tolerance for cowardly hate-mongers who cannot even label their posts. Eds.

We divide up Really ?
written by a guest , February 26, 2008

Now it seems several people haven't done their maths properly. Are we viewing Kenya through the squares Kilometres or through the population?

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written by a guest , March 10, 2008

HAPPY NEW YEAR KENYANS!!!