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written by Stephen Wanyama , June 07, 2007

It seems to me the problem is that Kenyans recognise that they live in a lawless country. I am surprised at the Standard quoting Niemöller. The truth is that by unleashing the security forces on Mungiki in a free-for-all blood bath we are letting them out so that soon they will be attacking all of us. LSK's quite silly announcement pleading for a state of emergency?? Do Kenyans know nothing about human rights?

Kill them, yes
written by SANDE , June 07, 2007

I do agree with OGOLLA that killing these buggers (munguki) is the only way out. Lets face it, these people are protected from above by the likes of michuki. Then Michuki convenes a meeting with the likes of Kibogo and Murungaru to find ways of stopping the thugs. My point is that all of the above are mungiki supporters. How in hell can they stop mungiki.
The only way therefore, is to make life difficult for the rank and file of Mungiki. Let them know that if you are sent to kill someone you will be killed too. That way they will feara nd recoil

Form alliances of convenience!
written by Sijui , June 07, 2007

Residents of the areas affected have to mobilize themselves and fend off Mungiki. After all when the dust settles, the Police and GSU will leave for the comfort of their homes and they will be left to live amongst these thugs! Why do you see Mungiki terrorizing Mathare and not Runda, is it because their benefactors live in Runda? Yes but they also know the residents of Runda will not take it lying down!

This is as much about poverty and desperation, as it is about power and control! The police may offer no protection, but Mungiki is certainly no ally in terms of simpatico with their plight. Residents should take matters in to their own hands and fight back with or without the police's help. After all even if Mungiki does get a lot of support from above, if enough of their 'soldiers' get slaughtered at the hands of their fellow citizens they will think long and hard about the costs versus benefits.

...
written by emmo opoti , June 07, 2007

Sijui, kweli hujui,
First of all I think we overdo the whole Mungiki's owners live in mansions in Runda. That would mean that these boys are slaves working for someone else. While it is true that they have political patrons, it has not been proved anywhere that Mungiki are owned by anyone. It is at best hearsay from our very excited journalists, more than anything though it is not a reasonable conclusion.
Mungiki may have been initiated by some rich fart in Muthaiga, it may even get political succor from that association, but if Mungiki was owned it would not be causing the government such embarassment in an election year.

Now, no one should be under any illusions that Mungiki is a ghastly group, but surely even the most gullible among us can see that there is a lot of hyperbole here. Reading from Onyango Ollo and other accounts from those in Nairobi, it is not immediately clear that everyone who lives around Mungiki fears them. In many places they are seen as a benevolent force. Sijui's comment assumes that the society at large would do better without Mungiki, he ignores completely the fact that their extortion may be taking children to school, facilitating business and putting clothes on some backs. Such backs are unlikely to be turned on Mungiki. An approach to the problem that replaces Mungiki's single person violence with wholesale terror on communities seems to most people an entirely counterproductive way to go about things.

Police should always and forever mean law and order. The public must always be able to report crime to the police without the fear that theu will as a result subject their whole neighbourhood to such an attack, and perhaps cause the deaths of their loved ones.

A STATE OF EMERGENCY!
written by John Njenga , June 07, 2007

Mungiki? Who are they? What do they want? How can they be stopped?
As much as we would hate to admit it, our lovely country is under attack. We need to tackle this issue head on.

This is not an act of crime it is an act of war. Sending police to Mathare is not going to stop them if anything it will result in the loss of innocent lives. Killing innocent people by the police would frustrate their fight against the Mungiki.

Mungiki are using guerrilla warfare tactics against the state they have black mailed the community and the police.

This people are a threat to our sovereignty, our dignity and humanity. They are warriors from hell and they need to be stopped.

Just like the Nazi of Germany this people have been brain washed they are not a bunch of criminals they are a sect of some sort.

Calling them terrorists is an understatement even execution would not be sufficient punishment for the atrocity they have committed .They should be fed to starving lions.

LSK's quite silly announcement pleading for a state of emergency?? Do Kenyans know nothing about human rights?

What human rights are you talking about Stephen? Mungiki don't deserve to be protected by the constitution. If anything in a state of emergency human right's doesn't apply.

SPARE ME THE BS!
written by Sijui , June 07, 2007

Mungiki benevolence, my foot! Their benevolence goes as far as demanding total obedience and patronage OR ELSE you'll be beheaded, skinned and quartered!

If they were so benevolent, why do they need to enforce their control through terror? They should be an equal opportunity outfit where residents voluntarily seek their services, obviously those who did not do so have not lived to exercise that choice!!!! If residents of Mathare etc want to coddle Mungiki that is their business, as far as I am concerned the police have a right to retaliate harshly when one of their own is murdered and residents sympathize with their killers. People should save this restraint nonsense for the birds, why are we not asking the same RESTRAINT from Mungiki? Which goes back to my original point, the people most affected by Mungiki's brutality will have to deal with them themselves. The irony is not lost on anyone that Mungiki's protection and benevolence only befalls those communities where they succeed in muscling in.

re: a nation under attack
written by aeichener , June 07, 2007

As much as we would hate to admit it, our lovely country is under attack.

Kenya has been under attack since 44 years.

But from above, not from below.

Alexander

...
written by a guest , June 07, 2007

I have an idea of who Mungiki are. Anyone ever wonder where street men/boys/women go to...there, u have your answer.

I have met mungiki members, and those young men have not known any soft life.

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written by alexcia , June 08, 2007

Just one question Ms Beryl Ogolla

Do you knwow where to find them (Mungiki)?
How to ID them?
Is so, how?

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written by Kamale , June 08, 2007

The present operation by the police will not finish off mungiki. It will perhaps go a long way in alienating innocent Kenyans against the police and this is where support is needed to resolve this problem.

The other problem is that one-off shock and awe tactics that do not have a follow up rarely work. Police and GSU would need to be stationed in Kosovo for a month where those who are innocent are allowed to go about their business but under some martial law!

But these are not the tactics that will finish mungiki. First we need to understand who mungiki is and not blame any jobless young man with dreadlocks as mungiki. There are examples in the world how such problems were resolved, like finishing off the mafia in the US. They kill someone, we find the killer and also who sent him. In Kenya we should find out who it is that collects the matatu cess, and to whom he takes the money and follow that trail. Once you start from the grass roots, that means you also starve the top progressively and they will come out to try and replace the low level guards.

You cannot finish mungiki in a day and certainly not in the media or political gaze.

So 37 people are dead, we readily forget them as Mungiki and the terror will continue in July.

Good bye Kenyans!

ODM has gone the wrong way!
written by sijui na sitaki kujua! , June 08, 2007

Any civil government at the moment knows one rule....you do not talk or negotiate with terrorist.(ask Russia,France,America,etc)FINAL,anything contrary is nurturing,dignifying and defending terrorism.Mungiki is undemocratic, extortionists,murderous,pityless,mercyless ,inhumane,insurgent,misconceived,ill informed,tribal,primitive,...list continues group.Any talk should be on mitigation on the severity of the punishment,length of imprisonment,etc.

No democratic government should entertain it.You do not legitimize terrorism by sitting on a round table, to discuss what?Dont kill us we will give you money,job opportunities, land etc.If that is the case all the other tribes should take the cue.Form murderous gangs in plenty they may just protect you from mungiki and legitimize dialogue and or derive opportunities from the government.

Take this analogy...If i dont have a job, should i behead a companys staff with the hope the MD will invite me for an interview!no Wisdom, education, insight, foresight,intelligence in that!(emmo and Proffesor Nyongo..you are treading a generous line of thought)

The protection fee they charge is demanded based on fear and reprisal if you do not comply.When an outfit reaches the level of Mungiki,you dont negotiate, either you win or lose,kill or be killed.

Retributive and detterent justice must follow.Mungiki kills not for betterment of the community but to perpertuate its murderous tribalistic policies.If left unchecked other tribes will form defensive forces.They simply will not lie wait for this group to develop its war kitty and pounce on them.

The way things are going we are heading in the wrong direction.

The government needs to form a crack squad,to infiltrate,collect intelligence and need be- assasinate the leading figures in Mungiki and their rank and structure.The other sect members should be hauled off to concentration camps.

Discipline,order and not chaos must prevail albeit at the edge of a sword as has always been the case,histry bears witness!Even the Divine Edict.AN eye for an eye..a soul for a soul, if you live by the sword,you will die by it!For the innocent lives lost..pole, in any war theres always collateral,it could be me or you but the vice must be stamped.

sijui
written by Amina , June 08, 2007

this here is the fallacy with your argument: you are assuming that the Police are above the law. and whatsmore you are assuming that the "suspects" that they are killing are Mungiki. Tell me how about the terrified residents of Mathare? Are they too guilty because Mungiki live in the neighborhood. The women who have beaten, the young men who have been thrown in the back of trucks? Whose lives did they take?

...
written by g , June 08, 2007

John Oywa a journalist with standard newspaper has a story in todays paper about a 50yrs old man in Mathare, who Mungiki youth report to. The law should arrest this man and do to him whatever has got to be done until he starts talking.

re:
written by john njenga , June 08, 2007

Emmo, I understand your reasoning. But I think you are missing the point, these monsters have crossed the line. They have declared war on our nation. I don't think we would try and water down what is happening in Mathare. There is no justification for their murderous rendezvous. Sometime it takes fire to fight fire.

Life is worth more than money, they have no right to do what they are doing. They don't deserve to be listened to. More than 60% of Kenyans are living below poverty line but they don't go about mutilating people like that.

Trying to win political mileage by pointing a finger to a particular politician is the list favour anyone can to the people of Mathare. I don't believe these gangsters are answerable to any particular politician.

If anyone thinks he is pulling the strings on these gangsters, he is dreaming.

Some more thoughts...
written by aeichener , June 08, 2007

If one were not opposed to a caustic paradox, one might state that the number of executions in Kenya has drastically risen since the government decided not to apply the death penalty anymore.
The last judicial hanging was in 1987, but the number of extra-judicial and frequently extra-legal executions through government agents (I have not counted the many lynchings, often for minor offences) goes in the thousands.

Now as to Beryl's feeling, I am sure that it is shared by many Kenyans, not all of them blood-thirsty ogres. So, it is certainly worth a public discussion and deliberation, and I am therefore glad that she made it public in this forum. But lest I be misunderstood: not every mental burp, not every crude prejudice or shameless display of ignorance is worthy of publication; this should be a distinguishing characteristic of KI against other papers, who will never be afraid to stoop too low as long as they feel assured they can match some readers' baser instincts.

1. First, you can kill people, but you cannot kill a "movement" just be shooting people. Even the British realized that. Mau-Mau was vanquished not alone through shooting guerilleros and suspects, but through brutal mass oppression and through isolation of the fighters within the population, and through widespread defection of former members.
The very successful and efficient pseudo gangs were mostly composed of former Mau-Maus; the same tactical element should now be thought about, when it comes to Mungiki.

2. Shooting suspects summarily is an immoral repression tactic typical for civil wars; it should not be applied here. Of course, some of those whom Police killed in Mathare were very likely Mungiki members, maybe even had committed crimes. Some.
So, does that mean we would be justified in executing the entire Cabinet, just because we indeed know some of them to be corrupt?

3. Having the afflicted people fight such gangs would be a promising strategy (as Sijui first recommended: "Residents of the areas affected have to mobilize themselves and fend off Mungiki"), now that the hideous brutality of alleged Mungiki has alienated them from their former roots and backgrounds. That means setting up auxiliary police (anyone remember the crucial rule of the Kikuyu Tribal Police in manjeneti?), and arming them properly. But there will always be the danger that some will abuse their power to settle private scores. There is a reason why "homeguards" had earned a bad reputation.

4. One could think about re-invigorating the Police Reserve. But it was abolished for good reason (corruption, criminality) and I would be loath to breathe new life into the corpse before the reasons for the decay are not tackled.

5. The root of the problem is deeper: there is no palpable, present "State" in the belly of many of Nairobi's poorer estates. Mungiki, taliban and however they may call themselves, just fill up a space where otherwise would be anarchy. Like noxious weed in an unkempt field.
But to remedy this would demand real city planning, structured development, delivery of services (the unknown word in Kenya!), and the recognition that the poor are citizens exactly like the possessing and ruling class, with the same rights and demands.

6. Kamale, once again, was totally correct. Please read his posting, and heed it.

Alexander

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written by X , June 09, 2007

Be careful about bringing the death penalty idea within the kenyan circles. In Ghana before rawlings, MP's overwhelmingly voted to build a jailhouse that was only 3 feet tall. This move was meant to solidify their rule in that country for a long time since by the sheer imagination of being locked up and unable to stand straight was enough intimidation for entire country. Wacha Rawlings comes from nowhere in a coup that surprised many. The MP's were cornered and rounded up then, thrown in the 3 feet jail for years. By the time some got out, they could not stand up and were unable to do so even today.Lets not hope the death penalty is meant for others but, it can be used against us, the world is small and crazy people and dictatorial leaders are among us. If the death penalty died in 1987, let it rest in peace.

...
written by Alexander , June 11, 2007

There was an excellent small observation uttered by a certain Majonzi (ahem...) in her blog:

"the govt has a higher calling- that to protect its people from terrorists whether Mungiki or the Kenya Police."

And there you have, indeed, all said in a nutshell.

Alexander

maybe we should run quasi poli
written by KENNA4UINDIA , June 13, 2007

i advocate both in my blog http://finishmungiki.blogspot.com and also through other means that the best way to flush these people out of their misery is to rise as a single communial force, as kenyan citizens and rebel against the ineffective police by taking the law in our own hands. the mungiki should face the same street justice as they have subjected kenyans to. there is no need of following numerous procidural and legal methords that anyhow have made them innocent until declared guilty (in this case forever as nobody will come up as a potential witness). this is the time for what i call second liberation for kenyans. its another fight for indipendence, this time from insecurity and government inefficiency.