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Marende (ODM) is Speaker of the Kenyan National Assembly

Written by Kiddi

Tuesday, 15 January 2008

President Kibaki officially convenes Parliament today. [LAST UPDATE: Time in Kenya: Jan 15th, 11:50 pm]

(scroll to the bottom for updates)

Two hundred and seven members of parliament elect are now in the Chamber at the main Parliament Buildings as they await the arrival of President Kibaki.

Paramilitary police surround the parliament.

They will later on be voting on the Speaker and Deputy Speaker of the National Assembly, voting is by secret ballot. They will file towards the ballot box alphabetic order.

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Raila Odinga takes the seat of the opposition, while ODM mp-elects are seated on the opposition benches.

President Kibaki is on the presidential seat.

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Kamukunji, Kilgoris and Wajir North constituencies still do not have members of parliament as they have not been elected. Also parties have nominated their 12 nominated members of parliament, however the Electoral Commission of Kenya has not yet gazetted them so they will not vote.

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Mp James Orengo contests the clerks standing rules. According to Orengo's parliamentary proceedings, there is no indication that voting of the speaker should be done by secret ballot. He also contests the order of voting.

The clerk, Samuel Ndindiri says that he has no authority to change standing orders so they will proceed with the secret ballot.

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Kibaki casts his ballot. Raila Odinga casts his votes next. As they vote, some members of parliament wave their ballot paper to show who they have voted for. Other members of parliament are loudly protesting the showing of ballot as they are supposed to be "secret ballot".

Voting is interrupted as member of parliament William Ruto also complains about the secret ballot as he also claims that the clerk has changed the standing order as this is not valid.

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The clerk then clarifies that it is his interpretation that they should vote in secret ballot. He says that this will not negatively influence one's vote.

Mp elect Mutula Kilonzo urges for secret ballot as he says the Speaker should not know how each member of parliament voted so that he can be impartial in the House order of business.

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Voting continues amid heckling.

Vice President Kalonzo Musyoka ask members of parliament not to compound mistakes made in recent history.

Mp elect Ole Ntimama also speaks to voting on secret ballot.

Orengo once again asks the clerk to indicate where standing orders show voting of secret ballot. He also asks the clerk to show precedent by previous speakers where they have ruled for voting secret ballot.

Mp-elect Martha Karua speaks for voting by secret ballot.

The clerk seeks direction from Parliament.

VP Musyoka urges the clerk to direct the house since noone has been sworn in. "I cannot participate in a flawed process."

Anyong Nyongo--" Kalonzo says he cannot be involved in a flawed process yet he has accepted the position of vice president."

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Mp elect Sam Ongeri urges members of parliament to vote with their conscience since " members of my community have been butchered for how they voted."

Mp elect George Saitoti, "This is a sad moment. Guiding principle is that voting of speaker on secret ballot so that the Speaker cannot be in fear of intimidation."

Attorney General Amos Wako speaks on the voting method. "Election of the Speakers in the House of Commons: There is no expressed position on how to vote for the Speaker of the House in the standing order. However, according to the House of Commons, from the Power and Privileges Act, that secret ballot should be used.

Orengo offers a solution, " We are not afraid losing the election. We shall vote as the clerk says. Let's go ahead and vote."

Kalonzo, "I move that we restart."

Clerk, "We will continue voting on secret ballot. We shall start all over again."

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The previous ballots are destroyed as members of parliament look on.

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Members of parliament are talking and mingling on the floor as they wait for voting to restart.

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Kibaki and Raila cast their votes.

In alphabetical order the other members of parliament elect begin to cast their votes.

(There is some heckling, however, it is not clear what they are making noise about!)

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Voting is going on smoothly.

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An mp shows his ballot and is booed-- more heckling and a call for restart of the votes. However, the clerk decides to continue voting.

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Last vote has been cast. Ballots will be counted in the open, in full view of all. All ballot papers are dropped on the table.

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1st Round--This round needs two thirds majority to win.

Kaparo, Francis (PNU candidate)-- 99 votes

Marende, Kenneth (ODM candidate)- 104 votes

Kalembe Ndile- 2 votes

Wanyiri Ngiri-0 votes

Njoki Ndung'u-0 votes

2 spoilt votes

Total- 207 votes

2nd Round of voting begins. This is a run off between the top two candidates and needs a two thirds majority to declare a winner.

President Kibaki and ODM leader Raila have cast their votes. Voting continues in alphabetic order.

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Second round of voting is done. Counting is underway.

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2nd Round votes-- This round needs two thirds majority to win.

Kaparo, Francis (PNU candidate)- 102 votes

Marende, Kenneth (ODM candidate)- 104 votes

In the previous update I had indicated that the second round is a run off. It seems all the other candidates were on the ballot as well.

However, the third ballot will now be a run off between the two top candidates

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President Kibaki and ODM leader Raila have cast their votes. Voting continues in alphabetic order.

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Voting is still going on as members of parliament elect quietly caucus.

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In related news, former UN Secretary General Kofi Annan delays his trip to Kenya as he has severe flu. Annn was expected in Kenya today to mediate between President Kibaki and opposition leader Raila Odinga.

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According to Al Jazeera, Kofi Annan has collapsed. (thanks for the tip Magothe)

All members of parliament elect have cast their ballot. We now await counting as observers from PNU and ODM watch on.

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Even though each side has two agents to count the votes, many of the other members of parliament are surrounding the ballot area. The Clerk asks them to move away and let them count. They are not budging. It is not clear what the noise is about. They are all saying something to him.

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Kaparo, Francis (PNU candidate)- 101 votes

Marende, Kenneth (ODM candidate)- 105 votes

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Speaker Kenneth Marende begins his first official business after swearing by officiating over the elections of the Deputy Speaker.

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Farah Maalim is the new Deputy Speaker.

Farah Maalim- 105 votes

Imanyara-99 votes

Spoilt votes- 1 votes

The voting was due for a second round (for the two thirds majority win), however, Imanyara conceded defeat allowing only Maalim's name on the ballot.

[UPDATE: Time in Kenya: Jan 15th, 11:50 pm]

Kiddi
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Thanks!!
written by Chiefouko , January 15, 2008

I have been waiting with nervously, jus waiting to see how exactly Kibbs team wants to steal this.

Thank you!!

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Nervous
written by a guest , January 15, 2008

The whole nation is holding its breath!!

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written by aeichener , January 15, 2008

The secret ballot thing is interesting, and quite typical for ODM's schoolyard bullying tactics (little doubt however that PNU would try to employ similar tactics if they were in the majority). The secret ballot is intended to protect a minority, and to counter-act the intimidating effect of a (supposed, but maybe not real) majority. From this follows, that secreat ballotting (unless explicitly prohibited) is always in order when a minority, maybe even when a single voter demands it.

As to the power thing behind it, government had previously cajoled and negotiated support for its preferred speaker candidate, and likely some such support is to be expected also from MPs who had been elected on an ODM ticket.

Lastly, his attempts show how much Orengo - a good and honest man once - has compromised his principles since the time (8 years ago) when he was roughed up by Raila's goons for being steadfast.

Alexander

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written by kepam , January 15, 2008

all in all everyone just say a prayer as we hold our breath, our country is more important than any of the politicians.

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written by kenyanese , January 15, 2008

The only medicine for Kenya is the removal of Mwai Kibaki. The sooner the better.

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written by orantez , January 15, 2008

Give peace a chance, be civil and try not to be judgemental/paranoid. To pre-conclude that secret ballot is so that to facilitate rigging is just out there!!

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written by okuujames , January 15, 2008

This is wonderfull

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written by okuujames , January 15, 2008

there will be no peace without justice and equity in kenya. orantez should not confuse calm for peace

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written by Koyolla , January 15, 2008

Hi, this is really one of the most historic periods in our country. Change is eminent everywhere including the institution that's the Parliament.
The elected MPS should make radicals ammendments to the Constitution and electoral laws so that these power-hungry protagonists who don't want mediation are completely trimmed of the immense powers they are boasting of. Next should be the Judiaciary- then ODM shall have faith in the system of justice. I join call for calm and peace.

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Accountant
written by Mkenya kamili , January 15, 2008

This shows that our mps are really keen on starting to earn a salary Very greedy guys. WHY DONT THEY (Kibaki & Raila) come together and mediate outside parliament. Raila is even seated on the opposition side - H accepts defeat to start earning allowances and salary but not to stop the violence thru mass action

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written by aeichener , January 15, 2008

Being seated on a specific side - for the time being - means no concession. Presently, and until the election is nullified by judicial decision, or a new election is held, he *is* in opposition.

As to mass action, ODM are walking a dangerous path. Less and less civil society will participate in these (because they will have to work, to earn their living), and more and more previously genuine protesters will just be replaced by paid hecklers and idlers (and rioters...), alas.

Alexander

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written by a guest , January 15, 2008

You rock man. Keep us posted!!

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written by Koyolla , January 15, 2008

Brother it is not in Raila's mandate to quell the violence allegedly fuelled by his supporters.

Kenyans from all the walks of life are angry at the Police state that they find themselves, after voting for change and reforms which both the political leaders promised during the campaigns.

They are incensed by the manner they are being brutally murdered, clobbered and tear-gassed when trying to exercise the only fundamental right they have - Right to association, Assembly and Expression.

They are the ones that want their leader to stand firm lest they loose faith and trust in him. Tell them anything they don't want to hear and they are up at you.

That's why calm is slowly returning but peace is still elusive until the genesis of the problem is found and amicably dealt with. This will bring back the confidence in our institutions.

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written by a guest , January 15, 2008

In political science we talk about negative peace and positive peace. negative peace is the abscence of war. Positive peace is the abscence of the preconditions for war e.g. social inequality. For more than 40 years Kenya has lived in a situation of negative peace. The question is how high a premium is high enough to make the transition to a positive peace?

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kenyans need justice
written by benard , January 15, 2008

To the MPs: even as you vote and fight over the voting pattern in parliament,just remember we still remember about your hefty salary.
Please do something about it. The more the salary,the more the conflict out here.

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written by InSidious , January 15, 2008

Karua is busy texting..........I wonder

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Updates
written by Kiddi , January 15, 2008

I am watching KTN online through Africast.tv. Unfortunately I do not have images. I saw Uhuru and Anyang Nyongo laughing and talking to each other like the jolly good friends they are. If only someone could take that shot and send that image to all those areas where their supporters are hurting each other!

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written by a guest , January 15, 2008

where are you watching this man?! Can we get the images anywhere online?!

(Not "man". Kiddi here is a female name, just think of "Kill Bill" Beatrix Kiddo ;-). Ed.)

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written by a guest , January 15, 2008

apologies...no offence intended! the same thing happens to me a lot of the time this anonymous is also a woman!

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written by ciru , January 15, 2008

Interestingly to see our honorable MPs are out of the caves from where they were hiding while violence rocked Kenya. It just shows where their interests lie. Kenyans if there is anything to learn from what has transpired the last few weeks, it is the fact that those MPs you were dying for do not give a damn about you.

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written by Claus , January 15, 2008

Could someone please explain what to expect from the next rounds? From your updates I learned that a two thirds majority is required in round 2, is it two thirds of the elected MPs present (that would be two thirds of 207) or two thirds of the number of constituencies? What about later rounds, according to an article in the standard a simple majority of 138 MPs-elect is necessary and after reading the results of the first round such an outcome seems more than unlikely. Does that mean that in all likelihood there will be no new spaeker today?

Claus

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written by Claus , January 15, 2008

Thanks for the fast reply (and sorry for my ignorance but as a German I don't know too much when it comes to details of the Kenyan system). I just realized that the 138 mentioned in this article from the Standard is exactly the two thirds majority of 207 votes, so their sentence "Both parties have an uphill task of garnering a simple majority of 138 MPs-elect

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written by a guest , January 15, 2008

Kofi Anna trip delayed!

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Al Jazeera.net/ english Annan
written by magothe , January 15, 2008

Kwani Kenyans ni walogi?

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written by Skivist , January 15, 2008

Claus,
Kenya has 207 MPs currently. A simple majority would be 104 votes.
138 would be a two-thirds majority

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The Standard?
written by kenyan , January 15, 2008

One cannot, sadly, rely on the Standard.

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written by aeichener , January 15, 2008

Truly bad luck for parliament and for the Kenyan people, only a lucky strike for the government. :-((

Alexander

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written by a guest , January 15, 2008

I don't understand Alexander. Why is this bad luck for the Kenyan people? Marende was the ODM candidate wasn't he? If ODM wins one battle won't that make them more cooperative in terms of calling off the mass protests etc?

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Quick Q
written by a guest , January 15, 2008

How are The Government responding to the result?

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Response
written by kenyan , January 15, 2008

for some reason they keep showing Martha Karua's disappointed face. Woiye she looks soo sad.

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written by a guest , January 15, 2008

It was probably just an error. All media houses make mistakes. Al Jazeera recently reported for a whole day that Charles Taylor was the president of Sierra Leone. He was the "president" of Liberia. Standard has improved a lot in recent years.

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written by Skivist , January 15, 2008

Alexander,
ODM represents the majority of Kenyans. Kibaki rigged the polls and even his supporters know that. Why would the will of Kenyans be an unfortunate thing for Kenyans?

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re:
written by aeichener , January 15, 2008

I don't understand Alexander. Why is this bad luck for the Kenyan people? Marende was the ODM candidate wasn't he? If ODM wins one battle won't that make them more cooperative in terms of calling off the mass protests etc?

Think of separation of powers, think of checks and balances. What Kenya would need now in the present stalemate, is a *strong* parliament. An active, able, nimble parliament that sets a counterweight to government and administration. A parliament that forces Kibaki and his ministers to cooperate.

In the heinous Westminster system (but have Kenyans deserved any better? I increasingly doubt it), the role of the speaker is of paramount importance, unlike in continental parliaments.

They had an excellent candidate with Francis ole Kaparo, probably one of the most able, most talented and most altruistic politicians in Kenya, a brilliant expert in parliamentary procedure and standing orders; n man with a high, truly 19th century conviction of the worth and weight of parliament.

Instead they now elect a rank amateur as speaker, a person totally inept for the office. He will not be a match against government and its liidaahsheep style. Government will just rule over parliament's head. And once again, it's the political class who is at fault. How many of these MPs at all understand the role of parliament? Less than 5 %, I tell you.

Alexander

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written by a guest , January 15, 2008

Ok, I see your point but i disagree. The speaker of the house isn't supposed to be neutral per se. He/She and the attorney general are known as ex offico members of the house and their role is purely procedural. The advantage in having a speaker on your side is not so much that he or she will vote on issues that concern you but that he or she will "tilt" procedural issues in your direction. They aren't supposed to be neutral - Wako is and has always been pro government. So has Kaparo. Regardless of how well informed he is on procedural issues, he was instrumental in, for example, ensuring that the Keter bill for separation of parliamentary and presidential ballots did not make it to voting procedures. He was also instrumental in squashing the vote of no confidence against President Moi. The advantage that ODM have now is that a vote of no confidence can be swiftly introduced into parliament, which if passed would mean a return to the ballot that will hopefully be more transparent than the current one. (the disadvantage with that move being given how carelessly people have thrown around accusations ODM may have actually lost popularity in Kenya). We can't just elect people because they've been good at the job in the past, we have to have some degree of assurance that they will be good in the future.

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written by a guest , January 15, 2008

so when will somebody else get the excellent experience when one guy remains at the seat forever? you do want to say that we keep Kaparo for as long as he is around (Speaker for Life) ? Come on! when he was elected for the first time did he have the experience?

Let's not be naive. Let's give new people a chance to prove themselves and you will see how they will shine after some time.

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Thank you
written by Nyangara , January 15, 2008

Ciru, Thank you for speaking up. I enjoy reading kenyaimagine but what I have seen here is becoming very heartbreaking with each day ...

Yes I know I put my heart there because I speak always in reference to my heart ... that though is besides the point. Lets just refrain from turning kenyaimagine into another one of those kenyan websites ... I applaud the editor for making sure that those that offend other readers and use vulgar language are edited out.

Kenya is a country for everyone ... not just a certain few or a certain number that relates to or knows the usual kind ... It is a country that is in need of a change but is far from it because there is still the few that still want to believe in what has been.
Change starts in small portions and I hope that peace prevails sooner and that we start working towards changing our country as a whole. We have a reputation to restore.

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re:
written by politicalscientist , January 15, 2008

Ok, I see your point but i disagree. The speaker of the house isn't supposed to be neutral per se. He/She and the attorney general are known as ex offico members of the house and their role is purely procedural. The advantage in having a speaker on your side is not so much that he or she will vote on issues that concern you but that he or she will "tilt" procedural issues in your direction. They aren't supposed to be neutral - Wako is and has always been pro government. So has Kaparo. Regardless of how well informed he is on procedural issues, he was instrumental in, for example, ensuring that the Keter bill for separation of parliamentary and presidential ballots did not make it to voting procedures. He was also instrumental in squashing the vote of no confidence against President Moi. The advantage that ODM have now is that a vote of no confidence can be swiftly introduced into parliament, which if passed would mean a return to the ballot that will hopefully be more transparent than the current one. (the disadvantage with that move being given how carelessly people have thrown around accusations ODM may have actually lost popularity in Kenya). We can't just elect people because they've been good at the job in the past, we have to have some degree of assurance that they will be good in the future.

I exist!! Finally I have a profile..Alexander, this is me...

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written by Kamau wa Njoroge , January 15, 2008

This is the power sharing that we have been talking about. PNU gets the presidency while ODM gets speaker of the house. Whats the big deal?

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written by tsunami , January 15, 2008

(Edited for conciseness and clarity. Ed.)
May be you don't understand the meaning of ineptude. Ineptitude can only qualified by proof of action not a premonition or an anticipated action. It is causal and can only occur after the effect.
(...)
Kaparo was not conceived and born in parliament as a speaker. He learnt the art and mastered the skills to walk the walk there and Marende too will learn it perhaps to steer the nation for the next 20years. It's too early to qualify or quantify his ability to lead or not lead and doing so only unveils your scantily concealed tendentiousness. Let's stop these pessimistic or deliberately orchestrated negative tendencies (...)
Strong opposition checks the excesses of the executive. The idea of bulldozing and bullying must now be forgotten and consensus building be embraced. (...) Nature also has its ways of dispensing justice and bringing to equilibrium situations that were being forced out of their positions of stability. So it is not about who is the speaker it is about both sides humbling themselves to each other and the more arrogant ones like Michuki the worse the state of affairs are bound to be.
So let's start being pragmatic not myopic as we are portraying ourselves.

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family jewel sellers
written by Wuod Aketch , January 15, 2008

(Personal attacks deleted. Ed.)
Kenyans have spoken - and will continue to shout until they win back what they have been robbed of. Today's victory comforts them in their determination to fall the mobitela/safaricom/KenGem robbers.

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written by ciru , January 15, 2008

(Admonition for good style and civilied discussion manners shortened, because previous editing now took care of that. Ed.)
Whoever put up Kenyaimagine, imagined a forum where topics are discussed with maturity. I just joined this forum and most members here refrain from calling names and using questionable language. Please do not bring crass in this forum(seems like the only Kenyan Forum that has some mature discussion and I hope it stays that way ) It does not matter who one wants to be the leader and who won, no need of vulgar language. Sorry but I had to say it.

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written by Beverly , January 15, 2008

Updates:
Orengo raised the point that they do not know who to swear allegiance to according to the oath which says swear allegiance to the "president".
PNU recounted that redress should be sought in the courts.
Now Marende is issuing his ruling.

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written by Claus , January 16, 2008

Thanks Skivist, I should have realized earlier that 138 is the two-thirds majority but the sentence in the Standard article. claiming that "Both parties have an uphill task of garnering a simple majority of 138 MPs-elect ..." was a bit misleading for me.
Claus

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written by InSidious , January 16, 2008

Yup, you guessed it, Kenneth Marende it is!

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Why did Kibaki and pals rig?
written by Wuod Aketch , January 16, 2008

Why did Kibaki and pals rig?
The result is that he will not even enjoy his loot with his pals. The shilling is soon becoming worthless.

Kenya's currency is on course for its largest monthly drop in January in over 10 years, losing 6 percent so far this month. It is one of the worst performing emerging market currencies this year, which has seen investors flocking to such currencies seen to be safer bets.

Kenya's coastal resorts become ghost-towns.

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re: re:
written by a guest , January 16, 2008

Instead they now elect a rank amateur as speaker, a person totally inept for the office. He will not be a match against government and its liidaahsheep style. Government will just rule over parliament's head. And once again, it's the political class who is at fault. How many of these MPs at all understand the role of parliament? Less than 5 %, I tell you.

Alexander

Kaparo is a true son of Kenya but he was not born with the Speakers Chair stuck to his butt. He grew into the mantle. Marende's CV is just as apt and perhaps even better.

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written by Tets , January 16, 2008

SKivist,

Don't delude yourself. With or without rigging, remember there are 800,000 odd Kenyans who voted for Kalonzo. If you add that to those that voted for Kibaki, it is clear that a majority of Kenyans voted anti ODM and really anti Raila.

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written by manta ray , January 16, 2008

Judging by his performance in reigning in hotheads like Namwamba and Orengo, i think Marende will make a good and fair speaker. Remember, he now does not owe allegiance to ODM since he is no longer an MP. His Emuhaya seat will in fact become vacant. He has past standards of impartiality to live up to and even surpass and going by his acceptance speech, seems determined to do so.
It is erroneous for some ODMers to imagine that he is a speaker whose brief it is to promote the ODM agenda. To the contrary, his job is to prevent Govt bullying of ODM, which is not the same as being an ODM partisan.
Still, it is early days yet and only time will tell if he will make for a patriotic speaker.

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written by macjoe , January 16, 2008

FORMER UN BOSS UNLIKELY TO COME.

The former UN Secretary Mr. Koffi Annan was expected to jet in today to mediate the disbuted 27th Dec 07 presidential results, but sources indicate that he is unlikely to come due to untimely illiness. So exactly what did the Ghanian President do when he came? What if the two camps dont come to the drawing table to agree?

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written by ericotere , January 16, 2008

Kenyans spoke and the best of two thieves won. Just because Raila and his gang lost does not mean they did not engage in rigging. Enough of this entitlement mentality. We do not need socialism in democracy. Forget about redistribution of power for now....Get over it and move on. Hopefully the next contest will be between Raila and Kalonzo. Do the math and figure out how long you have before you ever get to sit in that state house...kwa hayo macheche tusonge mbele.

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written by ericotere , January 16, 2008

Don't forget there are other kenyans whose votes were ALSO COUNTED only to PUT HON. MWAI KIBAKI ON TOP. Since i believe that both parties were involved in the rigging, lets just say that Kibaki rigged the popular vote while Raila rigged the parliamentary votes...Both emerged as winners. The only difference is that one will have to sit in the White house while the other will have to deals with the heckling in the legislative house. NA HIYO NI MAENDELEO...Let wait for the next Match..hopefully between RAILA and KALONZO.

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written by Brian Munyasia , January 16, 2008

To answer Kamau wa Njoroge,
The BIG deal is one group stole while the other won.
You may want to consider posting thought out comments

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written by ericotere , January 16, 2008

I wish Mr Annan would just remain in New York. His mediation is more needed in Dafur, than in Kenya. After all, his record in the UN was not all that credible...does anyone remember the oil for Food programme dealings, and how they undermined the efforts of the International community in dealing with Sadam? Kofis has a broken record that we cannot ignore. Just as his fellow left leaning EU leaders who are threatening to withold aid for Kenya, I do not believe Mr Annan is a neutral party in this matter. Its obvious which side Mr Annan would be taking, especially when you factor in Railas opposition to the US role in the war on Terror going on in Kenya, and how he had pledged to the Muslim Community, if elected he would stop the deportation of suspected terrorist. Due to his opposition of the US involvement in Iraq, Mr Annan would support a Raila administration. One that hostile to the US, just like the UN has been in its effort to undermine the US effort in fighting global terrorism. He and Raila's come from the same school of though. Its no wonder the Kibaki govt. is so opposed to International community meddling with Kenya internal affairs-especially the anti US regimes in the EU. If anyone is in any doubt of what i'm eluding to, try connecting the dots between Railas Spokesperson Mr Salim Lone and his to the UN. Try finding some of his articles in British press and you will the direction Raila will take us, based on who he's hanging out with. Then you can make up your mind. If anyone has forgotten, let me remind you those who killed innocent lives in the Embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania are still among us and Mr Raila has vowed to protect them, even worse grant them a Jimbo where they can operate freely at the detriment of our beloved country. Also, there is potential for oil in the coast and Raila would like to give away that part of our country to this group in exchange for power.
To summarize strongly believe that Kenya has a better partner in the US than in the UN.
It is the duty of all Kenyans to defend Kenya's sovereignty at all cost from those who would have it taken away from us. The US gets it, the UN does not! Lets choose our friend wisely!

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written by Kamwari , January 16, 2008

The obvious thing is in the contested presidential elections both PNU & ODM rigged the elections. The only difference is there is a bigger thief than the other while all along during vote counting the lesser thief thought he was leading only to be overturned. So let the two of them sort out their issues and let the Kenyans continue to work hard to earn their daily bread which matters to them at the moment.

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re- Kamwari
written by Ahmed Ali , January 16, 2008

Where do you get this notion that both PNU&ODM rigged the elections? Is this part of the mis-information programme? What is out in the open is that there were problems in the tallying and final result declaration. This happened in the ECK KICC offices.

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re:
written by aeichener , January 16, 2008

The obvious thing is in the contested presidential elections both PNU & ODM rigged the elections. The only difference is there is a bigger thief than the other while all along during vote counting the lesser thief thought he was leading only to be overturned.
So let the two of them sort out their issues and let the Kenyans continue to work hard to earn their daily bread which matters to them at the moment.

Well, let me put it this way:

It is true - as already Njau Ndirangu had poignantly observed here - that we are (metaphorically) dealing with two thieves, and see one complain that the other stole more.

It is also true that a smart prior media campaign, very slanted results reporting by the media, and insufficiently reliable polling had given the wrong image of a vast ODM lead which in this way never existed.

However, I concede the possibility that ODM may still have won the presidential election by a narrow margin (we will never know), though exit polls - little reliable as they are - suggest otherwise, and though contested pro-PNU votes had already been sorted out consensually on 29th December; if one included them, Kibaki's presidential lead would even be much larger.

Back to the thief. The thief is not this or that candidate, it is the political class. And bereaved was the People, of its political will. That is the reason why I think we cannot just "leave it to the parties" to sort out the mess. Kenyans as a whole have a right to better candidates than Kibaki and Raila, and they have a right that their disciplined and peaceful voting be respected by their greedy wannabe liidaahs.

Alexander

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Of thieves and greater thieves
written by Skivist , January 16, 2008

Quite a number of the people who voted for Kibaki, voted in fear of Raila and not because they admired Kibaki including Alexander here and Ndirangu. That is why they readily accept that Kibaki stole but want to drag Raila in it. We who voted for Raila voted for him because we believe in him and are not ready to settle for a status quo! We know Raila is not a thief and had no control over the ECK. The whole of the ECK was single handedly appointed by Kibaki and the Grand theft occured at KICC by Kibaki's appointee.
Next Elections, whenever they are, we'll vote Raila, if not we'll vote Ruto!

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written by macjoe , January 16, 2008

(We apologize for the ambiguity. The ban warning pertains to the Anonymous whose posting was deleted in that space, not to you. Again, sorry for the misunderstanding! Eds.)

But what have i done to be banned Mr. Moderator. Am just wondering?

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Raila is could still be a pres
written by dr.phil , January 16, 2008

Tribal hate deleted. Ed.

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Kivuitu still alive and kickin
written by a guest , January 16, 2008

Miracles will never end in Kenya, Kivuiti, the ECK chairman also responsible for the mess in Kenya is still earning the taxpayer's money and taking important decisions.

This man should be hanged instead. The least of the sanctions is to fire him.

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Rally for justice
written by a guest , January 17, 2008

When will ODM hold a rally to protest the INJUSTICE brought upon all those killed by its "disenfranchised" hooligans.

Do you want President Raila to call for that rally? Just ask and it will be done.
But this can only happen after Kibaki comes down his pedestal and gives back Kenyans what he stole from them - the cash he has been stealing from government coffers with his accomplices and the presidential elections.

Then we will settle down to solve the refugee problem.

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written by Amir Ibrahim , January 17, 2008

Jessy,
We all know that the Kenya Police are a brutal organisation. Do we not remember the murder of 500 Mungiki by the police in the summer, or were they Kikuyu and therefore unworthy of the protection offered by the constitution?
Now I would like to think that the government should just declare martial law, but that would bring business to a standstill- God knows we are hurting already- and will get us bad press internationally. I cannot believe that there are Kenyans who are suffering so much under Kibaki (whether he stole the elections or not) that they would like to see this situation continue one day longer. In Kisumu now people are stealing from each other coming back from the shop, the looting is now on the few remaining Luo and Luhya shopkeepers, the supplies are drying up too, especially with roadblocks clogging up the RVP and transporters fearing for the safety of their drivers and trucks.

Let me make it clear that I do not condone violence, but why is anyone out of their house making faces at the police in a time such as this. Stay in your house, if you are outside mocking the police in these most tense and distressing times, then trust me you are asking for whatever comes at you. The KPS in Kisumu is over-stretched, angry and tired. These men and women have been on duty since Dec 25th or thereabouts, you think they are having fun? How many consecutive 24 hour shifts can you pull? Are they getting enough food?

(We very rarely intersperse with textual comments - different from editing and deleting measures - but this is a case where I deem it licit:
Please make clear to which version of the video clip you refer. Many posters have - maybe in good faith - relied upon a purposefully distorted and disingenuously cut version of the video, which does not show the real sequence of events, *before* the policeman running and shooting, a sequence that allows to see the action of the police in a very different light. Ed.)

The government is under pressure from business especially in Kisumu. Like Muluka and others have said, what happened in Kisumu is beyond forgiveable, such madness as brought that youth out of his house has destroyed completely the third largest city in our country and the businessmen there are still charging that the government is not doing enough to protect the town. Do you realise that the GoK allowed these goons like three whole days before they intervened? What more restraint can we ask for? These marches have been outlawed for heaven's sake? Don't these people get it? Do they want to be on relief food for the next forty years? Who on earth will be mad enough to put money into such a city, a city where people destroy their source of livelihood? Is Nyanza the poorest province, well it is just about to get far far worse, eternally.

There is clearly no shoot-to-kill order. God, these ODM illiterates and their English!! How many people were killed yesterday? Shoot-to-kill? Oh, and then there's the genocide against Luos by government troops, eh?

Is there any room in Kenya for anyone who is not a nihilist?

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police caught shooting and kil
written by jessy , January 17, 2008

Let me thank the local tv station KTN for airing the video footage of the decade, of a police man ambushing and shooting dead in cold blood of two unarmed youths in the streets of kisumu.

(Incorrect statement, Jessy. Please look at the full, unshortened version of the video clip, and then make up your mind again. Ed.)

As I had indicated earlier, Kibaki and Major General Ali should now explain the previous deaths of 61 residents in Kisumu most of whom who had bullet wounds in their back. We are watching and we want answers and we will not put the matter to rest.

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written by a guest , January 17, 2008

Moderator's Warning to "Anonymous", you will be banned via your IP address.

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re: Kibaki violence = no peace
written by manta ray , January 17, 2008

As long as Kibaki continues with his violence on unarmed civilians there will be no peace.

As long as the MAJORITY of Kenyans, who DO NOT SUPPORT ODM, are not in the streets, ODM's is a futile and ultimately wasteful engagement in lives and property.

They will simply not get what they want, so where are they going with this?

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written by ericotere , January 17, 2008

When will ODM hold a rally to protest the INJUSTICE brought upon all those killed by its "disenfranchised" hooligans. We need to see justice brought to all the perpetrators of Hate Crimes, mainly against innocent, hardworking (... Ed.) civilians. Those behind the ruthless acts, whether they be politicians or civilians, should be held accountable.

I'm curious to hear what ODM supporters have to say about this...I suggest redirecting your passions to a more common cause; the future of Kenya, and not just that of power hungry politicians. Credibility matters!

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Fear is a primitive emotion
written by New Day , January 17, 2008

Quite a number of the people who voted for Kibaki, voted in fear of Raila and not because they admired Kibaki including Alexander here and Ndirangu. That is why they readily accept that Kibaki stole but want to drag Raila in it. We who voted for Raila voted for him because we believe in him and are not ready to settle for a status quo! We know Raila ... had no control over the ECK. The whole of the ECK was single handedly appointed by Kibaki and the Grand theft occured at KICC by Kibaki's appointee.

This above is an accurate statement in my opinion. Most PNU supporters I have interviewed upfront admit there were serious doubts over the credibility of the ECK results. However, the supporters are uncomfortable with either a re-tally or a fresh presidential election if that is possible. But most of them say they wish that everyone would forget about the election story and 'move on' to 'Nation Building' and 'healing process'. I detect an element of guilt which is hastily shrouded by ambitions for the country to go on with its business in a peaceful environment, very ironical if put into the pre-election contest when PNU supporters were always ready to remind us what Kibaki had been doing for Kenya in the last 5 years, now when we ask for clarifications on what happened during the 2 or 3 days which form an important mark in our history, we are told to face the future instead. Nonetheless, I also quickly add that when the initial election results started to trickle in and ODM was ahead by some 800,000 votes, some PNU friends of mine had seen the defeat and were ready to admit whatever the final results would be with courage. They were infact starting to re-organize their thinking to conform with whatever joys and sorrows a Raila presidency would bring.

Now PNU has not issued any official statement on their position regarding the conduct of the ECK, however, in normal circumstances, a government would be expected to express appreciation to the commission either verbally or through the media following the elections. The only hint we can get from the gvt side that the ECK could have done better is through one Martha Karua who has recited for the umpteenth time that the aggrieved should file a petition through the courts. While we are left to read between the lines and the ethno-political divides continue to widen, it is disgraceful for the government to continue conducting its affairs like if this was Afghanistan or Somalia.

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re: re: Kibaki violence = no p
written by New Day , January 17, 2008

As long as the MAJORITY of Kenyans, who DO NOT SUPPORT ODM, are not in the streets, ODM's is a futile and ultimately wasteful engagement in lives and property.

They will simply not get what they want, so where are they going with this?

Please note, even ECK's contested results show that PNU accumulated 37 percent of the total votes way below what we all know as a majority. Voting in parliament also shows that ODM has managed to bag 50.72 percent of total votes against PNU's 48.7 percent.

Finally, in today's information era, it is people in the offices like you and me who do the biggest damage to a country's stability and not foot soldiers who engage police in running battles and go home in frustration. For proof click Mashada.com/forums and read all the vile and hatred that is smeared right there.

Editorial comment: or take Jukwaa, a hotbed of rabid blinkered tribalism and reckless hate-mongering. We try to stay clear of that here, as much as feasible. Even if that means swinging the broom a few more times ;-). We do that for the silent majority of our readers. Eds.

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stop the rally anthem
written by New Day , January 17, 2008

Quote Ericotere: When will ODM hold a rally to protest the INJUSTICE brought upon all those killed by its "disenfranchised" hooligans. We need to see justice brought to all the perpetrators of Hate Crimes, mainly against innocent, hardworking..

What we need is an institution called truth and reconciliation authority (an equivalent of the Rwandese Gachacha) to handle this mess in a more organized way. Rallies and counter-rallies in the name of healing a country is unproductive, and finger-pointing is only a breeding point for more hatred. We can be mature enough to see these things vijana.

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Wrong Assumption
written by New Day , January 17, 2008

Quote from Tets:
SKivist, Don't delude yourself. With or without rigging, remember there are 800,000 odd Kenyans who voted for Kalonzo. If you add that to those that voted for Kibaki, it is clear that a majority of Kenyans voted anti ODM and really anti Raila'.

Tets, are you implying that the ECK after playing the game of bad poker on the results received was now supposed to add Kalonzo's figures on to Kibaki's? Come on, these guys were greedily seeking their personal interests and had no time to come together and consolidate these votes under PNU. That is why all Ballot papers had ODM, ODM-K and PNU slots separately. Your statement is seriously off the mark. And this also applies to the IPPG.

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NewDay
written by Timothy Wainaina , January 17, 2008

You have always shown a somewhat maniacal predisposition to go against the facts, but it is my duty as your fellow citizen to lend a hand.

P.S. Why do people hide behind inane monikers like NewDay, are we supposed to take you seriously? I suppose this is the NewDay with Richard Kwach as Chief Justice and William Ole Ntimama and Fred Gumo perhaps in charge of internal security?

Anyway, details. You allege that the ODM has a majority even as shown by the speaker election. Three little points,
a) Central and Eastern Kenya have the highest ratio of wananchi to constituencies.
b) PNU drama and disorganisation sent many ODM MPs to parliament who should never have made it but for the fact that there were 5-20 pro-Kibaki candidates on other tickets. Check out Cherangany, Rongai or any Nairobi constituency. In fact considering the ODM-K votes, the ODM will be lucky to get even 75 seats in parliament.
c) William Ruto and other such thugs were peering over the shoulders of ODM MPs, ensuring that they voted Marende. This reflects the fact that even at the grassroots, many ODM votes were forced out of wananchi. There go any pretensions to some moral crusade, and please don't make a fool of yourselves alleging that the PNU had bribed ODM MPs, how could they enforce MP voting patterns in a secret ballot?

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re: NewDay
written by jessy , January 18, 2008

You have always shown a somewhat maniacal predisposition to go against the facts, but it is my duty as your fellow citizen to lend a hand.

P.S. Why do people hide behind inane monikers like NewDay, are we supposed to take you seriously? I suppose this is the NewDay with Richard Kwach as Chief Justice and William Ole Ntimama and Fred Gumo perhaps in charge of internal security?

Anyway, details. You allege that the ODM has a majority even as shown by the speaker election. Three little points,
a) Central and Eastern Kenya have the highest ratio of wananchi to constituencies.
b) PNU drama and disorganisation sent many ODM MPs to parliament who should never have made it but for the fact that there were 5-20 pro-Kibaki candidates on other tickets. Check out Cherangany, Rongai or any Nairobi constituency. In fact considering the ODM-K votes, the ODM will be lucky to get even 75 seats in parliament.
c) William Ruto and other such thugs were peering over the shoulders of ODM MPs, ensuring that they voted Marende. This reflects the fact that even at the grassroots, many ODM votes were forced out of wananchi. There go any pretensions to some moral crusade, and please don't make a fool of yourselves alleging that the PNU had bribed ODM MPs, how could they enforce MP voting patterns in a secret ballot?

Timo! ODM MPS HAD TO MAKE SURE EVERONE VOTED FOR MARENDE BECAUSE WE KNOW THE PNU GUYS ARE SO MORALESS THAT THEY HAD TO BRIBE OUR MPS TO VOTE THAT OLD GOOD FOR NOTHING KAPARO BUT! HE! HE!HE!HE! THEY GOT TO EAT YOUR MONEY AND VOTE THE SPEAKER KENYANS WANTED,NO WONDER THE LONG FACES ON PNUS SIDE AFTER THE RESULTS WERE READ OUT.CALL IT A CASE OF HITTING TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE BY THOSE ODM MPS.

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The rot is at the top
written by New Day , January 18, 2008

maniacal predisposition or predisposed maniac, it is necessary to note that what we are engaged in is a vicious cycle which only throws out those who have been killed (as has been witnessed). we are embroiled in it because Kibaki is not a statesman and has shown a weak capacity to embrace the whole country. Look at his record of competition: Lost a referendum, a highly disputed election followed closely by a lost attempt to direct the election of the speaker of the national assembly..and still counting.

Elections at Parliament: I was shocked at how little airtime the BBC and Reuters dedicated to the victory of Kenneth Marende considering that the election was conducting in a free and fair manner devoid of the underhand hustlings that was seen at the ECK in KICC during the presidential elections. it is instructive that the PNU learns from this exercise so as to save the country from what we are now witnessing from happening in future. In brief, you can not win all the time, and victory and defeat are in the hands of God. Kudos Jessy for echoing similar sentiments.

New Day is my pseudonym so that people like you (Timothy Wainaina) do not brand and pre-judge using the ethnic stereotyping tools that is all so commonly applied on kenyan names like wachira and kiptanui.

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Kibaki violence = no peace
written by a guest , January 18, 2008

(Call for continuous violence deleted. Ed.)

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re: re: Kibaki violence = no p
written by Wuod Aketch , January 18, 2008

(...)
As long as the MAJORITY of Kenyans, who DO NOT SUPPORT ODM, are not in the streets, ODM's is a futile and ultimately wasteful engagement in lives and property.

They will simply not get what they want, so where are they going with this?

How do you expect the rest to go protesting when they are already doing their rally on the highways and are living in camps on handouts?

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written by jessy , January 19, 2008

Amir,
you said that there was no shoot-to-kill order by the govt for klisumu residents,hope you saw the video footage of police shooting innocent youths in cold blood in kisumu.now my questions are
1. were they destroying any property?
2.were they in any threatening anybody
3.did they provoke the police

The answer is a stong NO!

look here! you self proclaimed govt spokesman, about those properties destroyed in kisumu its an open secret that the govt throuh the police did that job to give luos a bad name,
about nyanza being the poorest province its people of your race that have been sucking it dry by taking up all the opportunities and resources and not giving back to society(by the way we do not need it bewithed by your false gods) coupled by the govt marginalisation of luos, but now the party's over for you and the govt we young luos now know better and will be taking full charge of nyanza and kisumu and about my english it may not be good but may i remind you that george bush neither has good english but he is the worlds most powerful man.its all in the pshyce

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Hypocrites
written by Isaac , January 22, 2008

Reading your article shows how little your understanding of International Relations,Your suggestion that Koffi Anan is anti- US is less informed and insinuation that thinking will make him lean towards Raila absurd. Discussing the whole of your mail will be a waste of time but let me remind you that ECK and Kibaki's action and are a threat to the sovereignty of the Republic of Kenya. ECK Chairman who was a referee in the 2007 election has publicly said that he not sure whether KIbaki won the elction.....what do you have to say about that?...and don't you think another dictator will come after Kibaki and repeat the same thing?.

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