...
written by aeichener , August 03, 2007

Hm. You know,I have read Lucy Oriang's commentary on Ngilu in the Nation. As one knows, I have a justifiedly low opinion of this woman L.O., and you can find it expressed here too.

But that article was plainly, unreservedly excellent. Powerful, compelling, subjective, unsmarmy... and she probably captured Ngilu better than anybody else.

...
written by Tim Norwood , August 03, 2007

Nice one there, although there seems to have been little nice about Ngilu's capture by the KP. I think the Kitui MP has distinguished herself, shown that she does have shortcomings like everyone else, but also that she is both hardworking, considerate, compassionate and passionate; i.e. the qualities needed for a clean-up of Kenyan society.

She does make me wonder sometimes, just what powers does a Minister have? I mean can someone only bring about change when they are in State House?

Charity begins here
written by donworry , August 03, 2007

Thanks to you all for the fine words of support for our own real-life modern day heroine. Charity begins way ahead of the pack on the Road To December...

As to open thread's swali ati whether the powerful Kitui Central MP has won her stripes the answer is a resounding Yes!! She won them many years ago when we still thought that Charity Ngilu running against The Old Guard was a joke similar to chopping down Ngong forest with your girlfriend's razor.

Charity Ngilu shows again that there can be a better way. I hope that this time round she will guard her independence fiercely and will not agree to be co opted into coalitions of the crooked.

We may not all agree on the politics of Mrs Ngilu. The one thing there can be absolutely no doubt about however is that Charity has more guts than most of the rest put together; It is quite clear in my mind that we need someone of her qualities to clear the mess that the men have left behind

...
written by aeichener , August 03, 2007

*Nod*
One need not like Ngilu, but one must acknowledge what she has done. Also, civil disobedience is a rare and treasurable trait among governmen servants.

As to the powers: a minister has very little of a chance to put her or his foot down against any resistance of his apparatus. But that is not limited to Kenya, certainly not.

Alexander

civil disobedience
written by Tim Norwood , August 03, 2007

Now there's a radical thought,what course of action is regrettably precluded of course by the fact that Kenyans do not perceive their situation as a particularly dire one, or one from which they need redemption.
Instead, they regularly herd themselves behind the relevant high priest, and send up prayers with him HOPING for a new day. Here is the real trouble with evangelism- the national faith- you do not do nothing. You just wait; and pray.

Stripes? what stripes?
written by Marangu , August 03, 2007

Mrs Ngilu takes charge of the health docket in Kenya. What would be a better way of earning her stripes than doing the hard work that awaits her at Afya house. I am more likely to interprete her current overtures as opportunistic and merely meant to catch the mood of the undecided voters. Good luck Charity.

Ministry of Light
written by Bishop Evan Gelist , August 03, 2007

..... Here is the real trouble with evangelism- the national faith- you do not do nothing. You just wait; and pray.

Perhaps Mister Norwood might think twice before dismissing the power of religion so lightly. The people need someone/something to take their minds away from their daily hardships. It is my job to provide invigorating hope. My words quench many a parched throat and they come to seek solace from the music that we bring.

My flock has been with me since my early days and I know every one of them like a shepherd knows his own sheep. I hope and pray that they will always be with me as we chart a way through this wilderness.

who to follow
written by Concerned , August 03, 2007

Inside the parliament house itself the MPs award themselves huge payments that we can ill-afford. Outside the nice policemen clobber and teargas innocent wananchi.. Then the man of the cloth advises us that all will be better in thy kingdom come.....

It is just like Tim Norwood abovet wanted to say "They sit on us and Prey on us."

heard of the Christian Taliban
written by Tim Norwood , August 03, 2007

That is what the Church was called in Portugal, Italy and Spain. The Church colluded with the dictatorships and kept the people backward and sated. Anger and hunger are the engines of development.

I do not intend at all to dismiss the power of religion. It is very useful in channelling the anger and desperation of the people, like it did in South Africa or with Martin Luther King for example.
The danger as concerned points out is when we tell ourselves that there is no use agitating for anything better for this is our lot on this planet, and Heaven will be better. Now, I am not one to deny the little people their faith, but their faith should not be the reason why the people accept oppression as their lot and do nothing.

NO!
written by mosaisi , August 03, 2007

I am a strong believer in actions that are based on the law and that can be replicated. Ngilu's actions broke the very laws that she has sworn to defend.

She -as an MP- has powers to amend the law if she thinks the law is unconstitutional and or useless.

The laws in our books require anybody holding a meeting within public property to first inform and get clearance from the police. This is standard practice in many countries for obvious reasons. The demonstrators knew the consequences of their action and may have been ready to face them as a form of protest.

It is illegal for a person to storm a police station and secure the release of a suspect. An ordinary citizen like me would have left that police station in a body bag should I have attempt to do a Ngilu on the police. Her high office led to her treatment with kid gloves.

As an MP and a Minister, Ngilu should move a motion in parliament that seeks to give Kenyans the right to demonstrate at any time without first getting clearance. She should also make it legal to "rescue victims" from jails if we though they were innocent.

...
written by Kamale , August 03, 2007

I am surprised that acts of idiocy are being acknowledged as acts of heroism.

If say Alex or Tim ventured into Central Police station to rescue Kamale being held for smoking on City Hall Way, would you refer to them as fools or heroes?

That is exactly the same test that Ngilu needs to pass.

If I do manage, I am writing a couple of lines on the recent political goings on and will include the reason behind her actions - surely it was not for Ann Njogu!

...
written by Marangu , August 03, 2007

Agree to a degree with Mosaisi's comments. Protesting against authority is not new, it happens everywhere and responsible governments respond to this responsibly, if there is violence, they respond with reasonable force. Kenya Police are reknown for their brutality when dealing with protesters, this stands condemned. Mrs Ngilu is out to make news, and she is probably doing that. She has seen an opportunity to put herself out there as one of those who has been persecuted by the government, and she has seized it. I think like Mosaisi says she had enough leverage to get those guys out by lobbying her cabinet colleagues.

Ngilu-Raila or Raila-Ngilu?
written by vivid , August 03, 2007

Whether it was for show or not I think Charity's actions this week has certainly touched many Kenyans, me included. She has shown a consistency that has just caught my attention. Look, all these folks are humans and they're trying to get ahead in life just like the next guy. And many of them are more or less trying to do a good job, including the President. But it's tough to be a politician and its even tougher to be a politician and speak out against the tide for basic fairness. I don't think Charity enjoyed being detained in CID. I honestly think she reacted from the gut instinct that guided her to her position at the national stage today. Where does that gut instinct come from? I'm slowly starting to think that wherever it comes from, our country may need more of that stuff. In any case, Mr. Musyoka's move early this week was either the best move of his political life or his worst. Because of that move the case for a Raila-Ngilu ticket has grown tremendously. Because of Charity's genuine concern for her fellow mwananchi, the possibility of a Ngilu-Raila win is grown too. Notice in the latter I put Ngilu first. That was for practical reasons: much as Raila has worked hard to be the top dog, I just don't see Kenyans electing him to that spot. Not now, at least. In fact, I think the fact that his followers booed down Musyoka in Mombasa was a negative score for him vis a vis his image to the rest of the country. Who wants a leader of a mob? With the leader comes the mob. But with the nation and him under Mama Ngilu's care, I think that brings real hope.

A note on Lucy Oriang's article on Charity. Now I love Lucy's writing. It is just top notch. I don't think you see that kind of writing even in the top newspapers of the world. She has the added benefit of that natural Kenyan gift of seeing irony in all situations. But I would caution her and anyone from inciting the people into irresponsible actions. If there is mess at the top of the Government, how do you think it is for the lowly policeman or policewoman out there? Or even his or her boss who may be getting confused orders from the top. Lucy's praise of Charity also had a negative bent of encouraging the kind of loose irresponsible mass action that can cause more harm than good. Many folks are fond of equating passive resistance with either responsible action or Gandhi. But they are mistaken on both accounts. The reader may find it very instructive to peruse Chapter 13 of Gandhi's "History of Satyagraha in South Africa". In that chapter he goes at pains to make the distinction between passive resistance and satyagraha. Satyagraha roughly translates to "truth force", but the first part, the truth, is where it begins from the practitioner's viewpoint and Gandhi stresses the importance of understanding the various viewpoints of opposing sides. The second part, force, does not necessarily come from the person practicing the satyagraha – indeed, him or her may do nothing at all and in that non-action lies all the action to change the world. It's a shame that history seems to constantly forget that great soul's teachings, despite the fact that he wrote everything out clearly. Indeed, his history of satyagraha in South Africa was written while in prison in India years before the truth of his teaching came to be in his own motherland. What touches one the most is the respect - even love - he showed for his adversaries.

...
written by David Mwangi , August 03, 2007

Ngilu's actions were less to do with "freeing" Ann Njogu and more to do with an silly attempt at publicity. I concur with Kamale and Mosaisi.

We all know where Lucy Orian'g political ellegiance is, same with Dominic Odipo's at the East African Standard, so I am not surprised by her about this matter. Acknowledging "acts od idiocy as acts of heroism" to borrow from Kamale, is I think idiotic itself for Lucy Orian'g

clown
written by joe , August 03, 2007

ngilu is a clown.

Male chauvinist pigs
written by a guest , August 03, 2007

Mosaisi, Marangu, Kamale, Joe and David...that is what yo'll are!

Charity responded to rescue a woman getting dragged down the stairs by the goons in uniform a.k.a know as the Kenya Police.
Would it make u happier if it were someone else but Ngilu? Or it would be better if she had done nothing? And let the poor girl get her butt whipped to death!
Violence breeds violence...the govt treats its people violently, they seek answers violently!

In Kenya's history, any peaceful achievement of any sort? Nada.
This si something that u as human beings are expected to do, just as u would want ur wives, gfs, mistresses, concubines, mothers and daughters saved from the bull rushers!

At times u waste the so much needed oxygen...why not allow it save the ozone, instead of this balderdash spewed here.

Mosaisi, the law does not have to be reason without passion, and it is never absolute!
Do u hit someone crossing the street midway when the street lights turn green just because the traffic law says so?
Me thinks, left without the law, you are sinister to the bone, if u need it printed down for u to perform a 'common sense' act!

I dont think so
written by pndiangui , August 04, 2007

As Mosaisi puts it, Charity's behaviour sets a bad precedent and the fact that she was doing the rescue as one wearing a 'minister's hat' rather than an ordinary Kenyan , which to me any minister should be when dealing with law enforcers, leaves alot to be desired.
She went against the law since those demonstrators were being held in a police cell for questioning. Agitating against their release without storming the police station , yes now that is using the right means. But storming a police station because she's a minister doesnt amount to anything diffrrent than seeing herself as being equal than others when dealing with the police force.

...
written by a guest , August 04, 2007

Pete,
Assumptions ought to stop.
Did Ms. Njogu call Ngilu to come rescue her? Or was it a coincidence that they were in the same place at the same time?

Be4 she became a minister, she too was whipped by this goons, not once but many times, even her Benz dented.

Once bitten twice shy...unless u are Kibaki, u dont forget such mistreatment.

reality check( Zorro)
written by Stephen Wanyama , August 04, 2007

Strangely, I find that in as much as I would hate to be caught up in seeing everything as a gender/politics issue, I believe there are two things we are suffering here.

Firstly, there is the assumption that Kenya is a free country, one where laws work. When you see the eminent Kamale or Mosaisi or Marangu claiming that Ngilu should have followed the law, you are left with the feeling that these fellows inhabit a surreal world where 2002 actually represented change. I would bet my tallest horse their reactions would be far different than what they are now if it was Moi and not Kibaki at State House.

Step back for a minute and look at the picture. Here are a group of peaceful protesters being brutalised by the police. Did you see the smashed up police car? Or the 'state of emergency' with the police at the hospital? One may suppose that Ngilu over-reacted, or even state the fact that what she did was not in accordance with the law, still to assume that she acted out of anything but an altruistic sense of service is very presumptuous.

Finally,this issue is coloured in a lot of emotion. I do not know what the newspapers mean when they say Ngilu stormed the Police Station. I am certain of one thing though, she could not have used any amount of physical force, so the word storm is out of place.

On Gender. Remember when the ughsome MP for Langata 'stormed' a police station. No one made such a fuss, not even his implacable foes. As always in Kenya might is right.

Not force but influence
written by pndiangui , August 04, 2007

Stephen

Storming through 'influence' rather than physical force is what the meaning of 'storming' here alludes.

do a test then
written by Mr.Kay , August 04, 2007

Okay Stephen Wanyama...you go and storm a police station in Kenya since you believe laws don't work. Let's see what happens.

Mother forgive them
written by jaya wardene , August 04, 2007

Without a doubt Ngilu has rubbed many people the wrong way. There is a certain denting of male pride here too.

Many people would be too frightened to take the police head-on in that fashion. Rather than admit that they say, "Ngilu broke that law."

I guess we have every reason to be wary of our police. You hear so many terrible things being carried out by our utumishi kwa wote these days that you might think twice about carrying out 'operation free Annie'

That is precisely why Ngilu acted. The minister knows our police. Reports stated that the poor, frightened lady was being dragged screaming towards the dungeons. Who can imagine the terrors that would have befallen her down there? She was rescued just in time.

For those of us calling for respect of the law I say one thing: cast your minds to the ongoing anti-mungiki operations and put yourselves in the position of Parents in Kosovo sitting by their son's body covered in sheets having moments before been shot dead by police, inside the house.

The police...Law Enforcement Officers... are murdering children and getting away with it. Nothing is done about it because we are all too scared.

Condemning Ngilu for her timely action is to miss the point entirely

...
written by emmo opoti , August 04, 2007

Vivid debuts on these pages with a rather colourful ode to Lucy. Nice touch, even if she herself would not be so generous with the praise.

Now, concerning passive resistance and satyagraha. Like has been put in another thread here, the emphasis ought to be on justice or legitimacy and not on legality. Say for example that someone had opened a door at King'ong'o and let the prisoners escape the bludgeoning they were subjected to by Prison Authorities, that would be an act both illegal and compatible with an act of civil disobedience ( both passive and satyagraha). Now only those privy to the conversation between the KC MP and the police can tell us how she wangled Njogu out of the station, she may very well have persuaded them that what they were doing was indeed unjust.

One is hear tempted to listen out for the very loud response to allegations that the Utumishi folk kidnapped Njogu's husband and would only let him go when she surrendered herself.

As regards the MP for Kitui Central and whether or not her actions are criminal. Like Kamale and Mosaisi and Bw. Kay, I am persuaded that she got away with them purely because of her office. Still, it seems to me that we are making a mountain out of a molehill here. Every single year, hundreds of thousands of Kenyans are saved from police custody by some mkubwa making that all important phone call or throwing his weight around. It is truly peculiar that the Newspapers and many respondents here are making such a big issue of it.

Taking police head on?
written by pndiangui , August 04, 2007

"Many people would be too frightened to take the police head-on in that fashion."

I doubt if Mama Rainbow could have done the same were she an opposition member of parliament leave alone an common mwananchi in the streets of Nairobi. Again its 'taking the police head-on' or storming a police station through abuse of power and percieved priveliges with a populist agenda. It is the perceived privellige non-granta after the 'victory' moment , that is hurting her the most. Which I think Major General acted firmly and within the law in letting Ngilu understand the consequences of bulldozing her way through a police station, a law provided in the same constitution she purpots to defend a minister.But she'll act contrary to it only when it suits her convenience. How I wish she demonstrated this disgust by quiting her job since the 'behaviour of the government she serves is contrary to her espoused values.'

...
written by Marangu , August 04, 2007

Anonymous-1:
You actually make very valid points, which I incidentally disagree with, just a matter of opinion nay pigs.
Stephen:
I doubt that the conduct of Kenya Police has changed much since 2002, my/our argument is merely the motive, and our argument is that it's political. Ndiang'ui makes a good point on appropriate behaviour of a self respecting member of cabinet who disagrees with the government he/she serves -Resign!

Male chauvinist pigs?
written by mosaisi , August 05, 2007

How did Ngilu's gender came to play?

Should we restrain ourselves from airing views on her actions because she is a woman?

The real chauvinist is that who thinks a woman should be treated different from males. I have never bought in to the "weaker sex" mentality and I will never!

Firstly, there is the assumption that Kenya is a free country, one where laws work. When you see the eminent Kamale or Mosaisi or Marangu claiming that Ngilu should have followed the law, you are left with the feeling that these fellows inhabit a surreal world where 2002 actually represented change.

A few days ago I had a discussion with one of the many Kenyans who were beaten up and detained by the police. He held the same view that there is no rule of law in Kenya and so activists would be wasting their time trying follow the law.

What brought us up to the debate that ended up with opening of old wounds and use of not so kind language was my suggestion that the activists should have made an attempt to inform the police of their desire to hold a protest as required by the law. I pointed out to him that such a requirement is not a move to curtail people's right to protest but a way of managing chaos that may arise from closed roads and disruption of other rights enjoyed by Kenyans.

He told me that I was in a surreal world. He reminded me that he was with Orengo and others when they tried to seek clearance to hold Mageuzi rallies in Kisii. Attempts to hand the form to the OCS as required by the law flopped as the OCS refused to receive the application and took off. What followed was nasty. They were beaten up and ended up in hospital.

So I asked him what can be done to avoid such action from the police. His answer was that we need a good president at the top. Mmmm! And I was living in a surreal world?

My opinion was that we need to improve the law governing clearance by the police.

In my ideal world, I would like to have my form received at the police station front desk (I don't have to wait for the OCS to emerge from a meeting). The person receiving it should should stamp the received date on the form and my copy then log it in. I should then receive the outcome within a number of hours. In case of denial of clearance, I should have a right to a detailed reason as to why.

Heavy fines an imprisonment should recomended for anybody who attempts curtail our civil rights.

Such laws will come from MPs like Ngilu who think the system is unfair.

the future is us, ordinary ken
written by tumaina , August 06, 2007

as much as we would want Raila or President Kibaki to bring meaningful change to our great Nation nothing much will happen without us, the people participating fully in all aspects of Nation building, we have to be selfless and beyiod the proverbial mediocrity.

...
written by Marangu , August 07, 2007

tumaina:
Maybe thats what we should all be focusing on, very simply put but therein lies the answer to most of the questions being asked.