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written by an , January 01, 2008

[User banned]

The pitfalls of Democracy
written by wildernessvoice , January 01, 2008

Democracy is so far the best political system but one must agree that it is flawed and does not always lead to peace. If the majority votes in a dictator, can we say that democracy has worked? If voters are uneducated about the issues and vote on tribal lines, is that democracy? Should the existence and peace of a nation fall on the hands of a majority? Most democratic nations cannot claim to have 50% of their eligible voters coming out to the polls. A government can be of the people and by the people but not for the people. Democracy can only work where people are presented with all the facts, and allowed to make independent educated decisions. It can only work when leaders are selfless and realize that they are only stewards. People must look beyond religious, tribal and racial difference in electing political leaders. Democracy only stands a chance where individual differences are set aside and the good of the country is solemnly protected.

kenya
written by richard ochieng , January 01, 2008

there are a few privileged kikuyus who dont know where their wealth came from, and then there are those kikuyus who lay claim on privilege,then there is the rest of the kikuyus (99.9999%) who are kenyans like all of us.

Responsbile Action
written by vivid , January 01, 2008

Daniel, thanks for your view. The key phrase in your article is "unbiased observations". Of course I am not happy with the outcome of the election, but the real facts that caused this chaos are far from obvious. The consequences are (sometimes barely) open for us to see and we can only pray that tribal violence does not spiral out of control. I do not like the way Raila and ODM are going about their protest because Kibaki had large enough numbers that it's not like Raila had a clear mandate for change on the presidential level. Hence, Raila must do his best to make his protest peaceful because at present he and his group are surrounding their words with the threat of violence. Like he made a reference to Kenya becoming like Ivory Coast. When I hear those words I get scared of the man because at the end of the day I just want peace for Kenya. True non violence means respect and love for your opponent. Peaceful words with hints of violence is violence. Raila should clearly see that his supporters are agitated beyond reason and he should be out there trying to calm them down rather than leading a march. It is his duty to be very careful about what he utters in public. The people must be educated in proper peaceful protest or else any Raila march will lead to misbehaviour and overreaction from both sides. The more we see images like people looting in the streets of Kisumu the more Kenyans will accept a Kibaki president because Raila as president was already a risky proposition for many to begin with. What we need for a quick fix are tireless efforts by all the leaders to calm the people down and an independent commission to be set up in order to study the results of the presidential election. Otherwise, Raila does not have the mandate from the people for the kind of orange revolution we saw in Ukraine and our army is pretty professional so any irresponsible action from his part will just bring harm to innocent people. The state will continue functioning and it is up to Kenyans in this critical time to put their differences aside and support the state in bringing peace and harmony out of chaos. Respect your fellow man or woman and show love to your opponent.
I will write in a later post when conditions have calmed down about what we really need for lasting change. The problem with democracy as it is currently defined by the west is it does not handle transitions in unstable situations well. The ancient Romans knew this and that is why they provided their generals with temporary dictatorships as some situations needed and created a centralizing force. But there is a better way that Kenya needs and can use to help the world lead itself out of the mess we've created. Right now I stop myself from talking further on the issue because it is my responsibility as a Kenyan citizen to promote peace and support the Government and other stakeholders in bringing peace to the country.

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written by a guest , January 01, 2008

The blowback to Kibaki's lying and stealing with impunity and audacity are the innocent loss of lives in Kenya. Kenya.

Daniel\'s article is inaccurat
written by New Day , January 02, 2008

I was watching KTN when the ECK/ODM differences resulting to the chaos happened. KIvuitu read the Molo results for Mwai Kibaki as 75 thousand plus some hundreds. Yet there was a returning officer from Molo with the results that were read out at the polling station which showed that Kibaki earned about 50,000. Kivuitu, knowing where the scheme was supposed to end, dared not stop to listen (very unlike his usual habit of giving people opportunity to interrupt him). He proceeded on to shout above the heckling and when he was unable to give the ECK results, ordered the security detail to clear the room. Similar irregularities have been reported in KIeni, Limuru, Imenti, Kiambaa, Juja and Githunguri. Even the EU has noted the discrepancies in its interim report and has asked the kibaki government to alow all results to be published in the papers.
What is this ? How do we allow kikuyu luo hatred previously checked to get out of control because of change which is inevitably going to take place. At the back of my mind I sensed something terrible would happen the way some kikuyu colleagues at work would react to prospects of a luo presidency. There are always signs of such disasters, ethnic by nature. Both sides will ofcourse stick to their beliefs just like Daniel Rubia has done between the lines in his article. This can not help the situation when hundreds of lives re being lost, please take note. I can feel the hatred even by reading one sentence, the call for vengeance. This is disaster and only leads to lives being lost. Raila must realize that Kibaki is not ready to cede to defeat any time soon, because of GEMA forces behgind him ready to sacrifice blood to keep the presidency in central province. He must seek an alternative, because we all agree that he was the winner.

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written by Concerned Mother , January 02, 2008

How safe is Kenya for visitors? My son and others are in the country working with children there. As parents, we are unsure whether they should stay put, or leave. They are near Nairobi, but not in the city. How long do you think teh problems will continue and to what extent?

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written by Stephen Wanyama , January 02, 2008

Dear Mamma,
It is a worrying time indeed, but if your children are in the Nairobi area, and not in the slums, then they should be fine. The uproar is restricted to specific parts of the country, and the government and the opposition are now in talks which should lead soon to a resolution.

Rubia No Longer at Ease? EASE
written by bintikenya , January 02, 2008

Rubia,

I would be tempted to beleive you only if you had gone further to explain if truly Kibaki had won and there was nothing sinister to it, WHY HAVE A SWEARING IN ALMOST IMMEADIATELY with a few gloomy faces looking on? It beats logic.

Sorry to disappoint you but your story about your priviledged relatives driving from wherever does not sell at all. ECK officials themselves..NOT A US citizen visiting Kenya- have come on natioanl TV to accept that they admit election irregularities.

Finally, you can stay at ease without Royco and your little comforts you are bubbling about, We here in Kenya lack the very basic needs at the moment.

We are the ones not at ease with being played around.

Binti

early inauguration
written by MoAmin , January 02, 2008

Here is why Kibaki was inaugurated in a rush. For all those for whom it is not yet obvious.

The ODM and Standard had rushed to declare Raila the winner of the election in total contravention of both electoral law and practice. There was rumours from as far as October that Raila was going to crown himself whether he won or not. In Kisumu there was already an uproar over the delay in the announcement of results.

I think it is easy to sit here now and throw stones at Kivuitu, and at Kibaki, but I am yet to meet anyone who says they would have done different. Any other action on the part of Kibaki would have led to the same situation. Including the following,

a) Kivuitu standing down
b) Kivuitu and the ECK delaying the results for a week
c) Kibaki declaring the election void and ordering a fresh one

i.e. the ODM wanted only to win. No other result would have been permissible. Against the exit polls, against common sense, against all reason Raila insists that he won by 1m votes!!

For heaven's sake people, the riots started BEFORE the announcements were made. The murders and the ethnic hatred had started before the elections, PNU supporters are being threatened and insulted even on the internet. Is it too much to see that the ODM has whipped us into a position of vicious hatreds, Us vs. Them dichotomies with everyone who does not sing Orange complicit in the poverty, desperation and exclusion of the poor Kenyan?

The problem is ODM's absolutist politics.

Keep deluding yourself MoAmin
written by Jandege , January 02, 2008

Mo Amin,

Please answer the following:

1. Which world leader has congratulated Mr. Kibaki?

2. How did the local observers, Keldof rate the election?

3. How did the International observers rate the elections?

4. Why did Kivuitu take no action when presented with evidence from Ruto (I saw this on Al Jazeera, so did the whole world.)

5. Why did ECK commisioners come out later and question the legality of the presidential tally?

6. Just watched Kivuitu on BBC news admitting that he doesn't know who won the elections and what does that imply?

7. Why did police massacre over 100 people in Kisumu

8. Why were over 50 people murdered in cold blood in Eldoret?

9. What exit polls? The poll you talk of was done in 1% of the constituencies. In the same breadth, why would all polls bar one indicate that Raila was ahead pre-election?

10. How can PNU win 15% of parliamentary seats and 47% of presidential?

11. How can ODM carry five of eight provinces convincingly and tie in one only to lose the total vote?

12. Why is nearly every Kenyan am seeing on BBC, CNN, Sky, Al Jazeera seem to feel the election was stolen?

13. What precedence are we setting for the future? What happens when Kenyans begin to lose faith in the electoral process?

14. Why is it that the rest of the world sees it necessary to send a team to mediate?

14. Partisan politics aside, do you honestly care about Kenya?

be still
written by Stephen Wanyama , January 02, 2008

MoAmin,
Thank you for your most astute comment. We are thinking on the same lines it seems. I think another reason for Kivuitu and Kibaki's action, again related to the unrest across the country, is that someone had to be in charge, there had to be someone to command the armed forces and the police especially in dealing with what was quickly becoming an inferno.
Those casting stones at Kivuitu are adamant that he should have called the election for Raila, but what if he saw evidence that made him see that both candidates or their agents had cheated? Would Kenya have survived a week or counting and recounting?
I seem to remember Martha Karua suggesting that all votes be brought to Nairobi for recounting and re-tallying, Kivuitu's response was dismissive, pointing out that the integrity of those votes, or the tallies could not be guaranteed and had almost certainly been compromised.

It is very wrong for Kibaki to pretend that the election was free and fair, but it is equally wrong of us to pretend that there was a winner, that there is a rightful president. While we seek a way out of our impasse, we must do everything to calm the nation down, knowing that soon we will have another turn at the ballot box.

Kivuitu caused this mayhem
written by Jandege , January 02, 2008

The innocent blood of all Kenyans lies at the door of Kivuitu.

Wanyama,
If Kivuitu noted irregularities on both sides why did he go ahead and announce an interested party as winner? Wouldn't it have been prudent to listen to Karua's suggestion to review all the 210 constituencies?

By then there was tension but rioting hadn't started. Probably the shameful acts we have seen wouldn't have occurred.


Why does Kivuitu now admit that he doesn't know who won the election? Isn't he further inflaming the passions running high in the country?

Kibaki may have arm-twisted Kivuitu into this situation but Kivuitu was legally empowered to do what he thought right.

It may not be helpful at the moment but I put the innocent blood of Kenyans in Kivuitu's hands.

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written by aeichener , January 02, 2008

No grave fault with Kivuitu. He was in a terrible situation, and any decision he would have made, would have effected the same results. As would have further procrastination. But all that has been explained before.

Alexander

Kiviutu interview - image and
written by Wuod Aketch , January 02, 2008

Here is Kivuiti's interview in hospital - where he says it all - image and sound please!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAs10t8cAiU

I did not hear properly the name of the parties that pressured him to announce the results - was one of them ODM or ODM Kenya?

Not convinced by Kivuitu
written by Jandege , January 02, 2008

Kivuitu had time to correct the situation. I do not believe that if Kivuitu had followed the advice of neutral election observers, Kenyans wouldn't not have turned on each other.

Remember, PNU and ODM had agreed that there were irregularities and since they were the principle players what was the rush in making such a phenomenal decision?

Kibaki, Raila and other Kenyans are innocent. The blood of innocent Kenyans who have died and who are dying as I blog is in Kivuitu's hands. May he know the pain Kenyans are feeling in his lifetime.

Aketch, JaNdege
written by Stephen Wanyama , January 02, 2008

Aketch, does it matter what Kivuitu says in hospital? We know that he was pressured by everyone including the ODM.

Do you remember Musalia's press conference? Do you remember that the riots started because the results had not been announced? The ODM supporters were adamant that the results be announced. They were so adamant they announced the results themselves. They only started applying pressure on Kivuitu not to announce after they realised the announcement would not go their way.

P.S. The clashes have very little to do with the delayed results or the allegations surrounding the election. Some of us are talking like they are foreigners. Every last by-election or election in this country is surrounded by violence. Do you remember Westlands in every election? Do you remember the crowds that stoned Kamotho, do you not know that after every single election the people of the Rift Valley punish the Kikuyus there for voting differently? Before every election there are mradis in the Kayas, there is trouble in Molo and now in Kuresoi?

Yes, part of this has to do with the delayed elections, but the greater part has to do with the ethnic polarisation and the really high-pitched anti-GEMA campaign of the ODM.

Hello, KenyaImagine is the only place online where I have met Kikuyus who support ODM or Luos who are against the ODM. But even here the supporters of the ODM are mostly very aggressive, and not shy about using violent language to get their point across.

Kibaki is NOT innocent
written by Wuod Aketch , January 02, 2008

Who are those people around Kibaki that Kivuitu is refering to in the interview. He says that they should not have been been born?

Kibaki's crime was that of crowning himself president hurriedly without weighing the consequences.

Some unverified rumors say that there are:
Forced circumcisions in Buru Buru area. About 20 so far. 5 people have bled to death as a result.

http://www.globalvoicesonline....in-africa/

Stephen Wanyama
written by Wuod Aketch , January 02, 2008

Aketch, does it matter what Kivuitu says in hospital? We know that he was pressured by everyone including the ODM.

Yes, because he confirmed to us what we already knew i.e Kibaki is a marionette and no longer controlled anything happening in this country.
The question is, who is pulling the strings at state house?

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written by Bulldog-MoAmin, Rubia , January 02, 2008

I think you are either misinformed or you operate on rumours peddled in the village or when you people are very drunk. This gentleman - Raila - called for all the ballot boxes in the country to be brought and audited in the glare of cameras and observers. Remember not from central only but the whole country. It may have taken a week but still kenyans could have held there horses. If people are genuinely winners why go against such an open request. This request was made also by other EU observers and Maina Kiai Human rights.
The devil could have been ashamed and people would have known whether the devil is raila or kibaki.
Don't go around descrediting things that were being broadcasted live and hence the reason for ban of live broadcast because this made kenyans to see what was happening at KICC and they could not just sit back.
If Kibaki really won the game and is claiming that he played fairly, why did he refuse the replay of the captured game to be shown to all most probably in slow motion.
So please go get your facts right or perhaps take something that can clear your brain.
We're not interested in Rokio and kimbo stories. We want a more objective approach that will lead to a solution not a review of who was wrong and who was right. Nobody was with ECK in the inner chambers except the few commissioners that spoke.

shocking!!
written by Amir Ibrahim , January 02, 2008

Anyang' Nyong'o has lost it!!

"How could we attend? He is not a president but a usurper. It is genocide because police are killing people," ODM secretary general Anyang Nyongo was quoted by AFP news agency as saying.

Are these people really serious?

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written by aeichener , January 02, 2008

Sometimes I ask myself (repeatedly) inhowfar we can trust papers and news agencies. Even politicians can't be *so* stupid as they are quoted.

Besides, I still remember a time (some years ago), when Anyang' Nyong'o was both a honest and intelligent man, one of the few to respect among the political class.

Alexander

ODM Pentagon Future
written by vivid , January 02, 2008

From an observation of pure strategy it may make a lot of sense for the rest of the ODM pentagon to agree to negotiate with the government and accept an "independent" commission. Despite desires for fairness, such a commission will probably decide after a long investigation that Kibaki still won. But now these other ODM Pentagon leaders would be sitting happy and pretty. Why? Keep in mind that I'm just talking purely from a strategic evaluation of the situation. In our present constitution the main power is still in the office of the President. If Raila was officially declared the winner then the other ODM pentagon members would be looking at 10 years before a shot at the top job as I don't think Raila would have given in to an executive Prime Ministership unless he himself took over that role (like Putin). Yet now they were voted in and have a chance at the top in 5 years if the phoenix that is democracy rises up again. Charity's wisdom paid off and now she'll become the undisputed leader of the Kamba. Mudavadi is singing hosannas after coming in from the cold and with Kombo's defeat he could become the undisputed leader of the Luhyas. Ruto's work has just been superb and I believe his teaching Moi a lesson or two in the Rift Valley is no small feat. Watch this man. And who didn't dance with joy along with Balala as he sang to his well deserved victory? It is during a big crisis that leaders often show the stuff they're made out of and how they behave in the coming weeks may increase the esteem held by their followers. In fact, coming to think of it, I think Raila has already done his great work in increasing the pool of such capable leaders who may lead our country in the future. He may spoil his investment if he lets his desire for the presidency rise above his desire for a peaceful outcome to the present crisis. But, folks, tempers and anxiety will run their course and things will be back to normal. Don't panic. The lottery winners (i,e, the MPs), will happily go on to earn tons of money for doing little and it'll be business ya kawaida for the rest of us. This means many will still remain poor. Many will still have to walk miles and miles each day to work because they can't afford the bus fare. Many will go hungry and eventually lie quietly and alone hopefully awaiting death in sickness. Forgotten.

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written by Concerned Mother , January 02, 2008

Thank you for your reassurance and for taking the time to respond while engaging in a most interesting political discussion. You obviously love your country very much. Thank you again.

re:
written by Wuod Aketch , January 03, 2008

Besides, I still remember a time (some years ago), when Anyang' Nyong'o was both a honest and intelligent man, one of the few to respect among the political class.

Alexander

I had thought the same of Kibaki before the 28th of December 2007.

Common Sense approach
written by Meshack Asiachi , January 03, 2008

It absurd that PNU MP

Dear Meshack,
Please try to repost without any dashes, apostrophes or quotation marks. Sorry we are fixing the glitch as we speak.

Mod.