...
written by Nyabs , February 04, 2008

Working through the mass of contradictory statements from the ODM team just gives me a headache.

The hypocrisy of Raila going to the same courts to defend his seat while steadfastly claiming that he cannot use the same to challenge the flawed tallying of the presidential vote is particularly sickening. Why is it easier to trust the courts in his case against Livondo and not with the presidency? Why can't he just call out the Kibera crowds and sort out the issue the mass action way?

I do not understand ODM. Anyone who can help me understand them better will do me a very great favour.

re: Raila is worst hypocrate
written by bond , February 04, 2008

Working through the mass of contradictory statements from the ODM team just gives me a headache.

The hypocrisy of Raila going to the same courts to defend his seat while steadfastly claiming that he cannot use the same to challenge the flawed tallying of the presidential vote is particularly sickening. Why is it easier to trust the courts in his case against Livondo and not with the presidency? Why can't he just call out the Kibera crowds and sort out the issue the mass action way?

I do not understand ODM. Anyone who can help me understand them better will do me a very great favour.

Raila had been couched by Dick Morris that he should go for nothing less than a revolution if he looses the election. That is why he kept of saying he would accept a loss on if he fairly lost. He demanded PNU to also say its candidate would do the same if he lost. Many times Kibake made it clear he would go home if Kenyans decided so. He allowed Kenyans to make their decision freely without intimidation.
Raila didi not even allow voters in Ugenya to make their choice of MP. He bull dozed Orengo to them and pushed him through their throat. Is that what he calls democracy?

...
written by Kioko , February 04, 2008

My friend Nyabs, Raila is not going to court over Langata seat, he is being dragged there by Livondo, he has no choice but to appear unlike dragging Kibaki to court for stolen elections.

Some respect
written by Eva , February 04, 2008

I hope all of you heard what Raila said when he denouncing Presidents speech. 'Kibaki Achunge mndomo wake'. Is KIbaki just a small boy to be told such words. Respect doesnt cost any thing. He uses some words that make Us loose confidence on him. I think they agreed that they wont be using any words that can incite people to resulting to fights. Such are the thing that start bad discusions wich leads to fights between the supporters of both sides. We are fedup by them speaking any howly. Raila is a man with two sides and we are now unable to trust him with our counrty. He needs to gather himself and now which side he is on i.e whether to trust the Kenyan courts or not???????

...
written by L.Papakemus , February 04, 2008

And the metamorphosis continues....

Najivunia kuwa mKenya
Navumilia kuwa mKenya
Najuhurumia kuwa mKenya
....Najivunia ku-uwa mKenya.

...
written by Eric , February 04, 2008

I don't understand the ODM group. First they were silent when violence was taking place in Eldoret and Kisumu. All they could say was that those were angry reactions. Now we know know that the angry reactions were planned before the elections(Human Rights Watch).

They refused to go to court because they are "Kibaki's theatre rooms". Soon after, Orengo is in the same courts making money for ODM clients.

They don't trust the Kenyan institutions. NOt the ECK, Courts and now the security forces. Who do the trust? I thought they were trying to head the same or were they going to fire all the judges and security forces?

Kumekucha is reminding us that talks will fail. What will Raila do if Kofi and his team decide that Kibaki won or there is no way of knowing who really won? Will they reject Kofi as well? They invited him and I can already see them dismissing him if he disagrees with them. I am sure Kofi has read the Human Rights Watch and is disgusted by the charaters he has to deal with.

I hope that ODM does not assasinate any ODM MPs who show sympathy to the PNU cause. The way they were treating the new MPs in Parliament makes me wonder what they would do to anyone showing sighs of defecting, or have they done it already?

I don't see Kibaki resigning, I don't see anything changing. Raila has run out of cards and friends. Poor fellow, what shall he tell daddy?

Mediation efffort
written by wawa , February 04, 2008

The Goverment of Kenya should first make radical changes in it's institution in order for the people to have confidence in them!
As it is at the moment Kenyan courts are for the haves and secondly are always biased in favour of the goverment of the day because after all they are all answerable to the president.
So Raila's choice of not going to court of which am informed that 21 days within which one can lodge an election petition has elapsed should not be politicised because he is never ever going to get a fair hearing from the same Giceru who presided over the rushed oathing of the president.
The statement from the president should be taken with a pitch of salt as it might harden the position of the protagonists which will be to the detriment of none other than Kenyans.

re:
written by Nyabs , February 04, 2008

My friend Nyabs, Raila is not going to court over Langata seat, he is being dragged there by Livondo, he has no choice but to appear unlike dragging Kibaki to court for stolen elections.

Thank you Kioko. I note the difference in the two cases. The question remains the same. It is the same courts, stuffed with Kibaki's cronies. What gives him confidence that he will find justice in his case with Livondo? Being the principled person that he is, he should argue that the courts will certainly rule in Livondo's favour and refuse to participate in a process that is already pre-judged,same argument that he is presenting on the presidential issue.

And why is Orengo receiving money to represent those who lost in the same courts that his Party Boss has no confidence in?

Makes you wonder.

re:
written by mkosakabila , February 04, 2008

And the metamorphosis continues....

Najivunia kuwa mKenya
Navumilia kuwa mKenya
Najuhurumia kuwa mKenya
....Najivunia ku-uwa mKenya.

Daima mimi mkenya
mwananchi mzalendo oo oo oohoh
Natumaini....

Madam
written by Anne , February 04, 2008

Good Lord! When I was younger, I thought all grownups were mature. But now I realize it is more the exception than the rule!
I think Raila is not mature at all. What kind of language is that to use on a sitting president? Chunga Mdomo yako? My goodness, for once I thought I was listening to Mama Mboga! In his case being a man probably a hand cart pusher! Even if he has issues with the way Kibaki got the presidency, he should respect the 4.5m people that voted for him! Calling him Mr. Kibaki is not an insult to the president but serves to demean Railas' social-political standing! It doesn

Raila is careless
written by ERIC , February 04, 2008

Kibaki's opinion that Raila can go to court does not undermine the negotiations, it is a well founded opinion and that is why it annoys Raila so much.

Aketch,
Anyang' Nyong'o and Orengo got direct nominations despite protests. Raila told losers to forgive the winners, why do you chose to forgive the ODM nomination chaos?

Ongoing talks
written by magothe , February 04, 2008

Cyril Ramaphosa is not going to be lead after all. Please click here for more on that.
Also, the fact that these gangs killing in the Rift Valley and elsewhere are well funded /supported. Seriously, for the sake of our economy, I hope we wananchi can get start working and cut this BS. Elections are over, the loser had 28 days to put in a petition in court but didn't and we can't start a precedent where if I am not elected I start a war aimed at removing anybody who didn't vote for me from this dunia.

Ojinga will be a good opposition leader if he can settle down and get on with the work at hand.

re: Some respect
written by manta ray , February 04, 2008

I hope all of you heard what Raila said when he denouncing Presidents speech. 'Kibaki Achunge mndomo wake'. Is KIbaki just a small boy to be told such words. Respect doesnt cost any thing. He uses some words that make Us loose confidence on him. I think they agreed that they wont be using any words that can incite people to resulting to fights. Such are the thing that start bad discusions wich leads to fights between the supporters of both sides. We are fedup by them speaking any howly. Raila is a man with two sides and we are now unable to trust him with our counrty. He needs to gather himself and now which side he is on i.e whether to trust the Kenyan courts or not???????

Raila is the poster boy of the primitive politics practised in Kenya, where hypocrisy, ignorance,stupidity and crass disregard for the dignity of fellow men is the norm. There should be nothing surprising about Raila disrespecting Kibaki. He is just the first among equals in that he epitomises all of the above characteristics.
The only thing that keeps Raila in the media limelight is the infantile fascination by our third rate journalists with everything Raila utters. How many newspaper editors have ever seriously questioned or thoroughly examined Raila's [non-existent in my opinion]capacity for leadership?

...
written by Cicero , February 04, 2008

Uncivil language is not a strange thing in Kenyan politics. Kibaki is known to have a penchant for a little matusi too...remember that mavi ya kuku line?

What riles me up about riler is his perfunctory treatment of truth. Is he going to apologize should it be found conclusively that the death of the MP from Eldoret was a domestic fall out?

Secondly, his puffing up over Kibaki's remarks at the AU summit are hypocritical in the sense that Raila has been making contentious statements about the elections throughout the mediation process. Raila has gone around calling himself "the real president", accused the government of assassinations and targeting civilians. I am therefore surprised that he gets ticked off when Kibaki suggests adherence to due process.

Raila\'s Salary is ........!
written by kobangoshe , February 05, 2008

Raila is a double faced fellow. Check with Parliamentary Commission January 2008 payroll. He is identified as leader of official opposition. His salary was paid as direct transfer to his bank account. He has not rejected it or refunded it. Isn't that enough evidence he knows and accepts his position?
In sum, he remains the Official Opposition Leader, period.

re:
written by InSidious , February 05, 2008

I do not understand ODM. Anyone who can help me understand them better will do me a very great favour.

Why are you defined by what you are against? Why can't you be defined by what you stand for?

changing faces
written by Purity , February 05, 2008

These remarks by the official leader of opposition have made me wonder what would have happened had he been in Kibaki's position now. He reminds me of those primary school teachers in our days who were right even when wrong on the basis that 'yeye ndiye anafunza kwa hivyo anajua'. By the way, what did he expect Kibaki speech to address?
Using demeaning language doesnt make Kibaki run out of state house or the AU not listen to him. And if other African presidents can support Mugabe and rant over him being denounced from the Commonwealth, why wouldn't they vouch for Kibaki who is a saint compared to Mugabe?
I totally agree that ODM has run out of cards and I think the sympathy is also running out. Kobangoshe, you hit it right regarding the salary.

re: Raila\'s Salary is .......
written by Wuod Aketch , February 05, 2008

Raila is a double faced fellow. Check with Parliamentary Commission January 2008 payroll. He is identified as leader of official opposition. His salary was paid as direct transfer to his bank account. He has not rejected it or refunded it. Isn't that enough evidence he knows and accepts his position?
In sum, he remains the Official Opposition Leader, period.

The negotiations on who will do what, are going on. How did you get this info. Do you have it for the rest of the MPs or Kibaki?

Moderated, Eds.

re: re:
written by Nyabs , February 05, 2008

I do not understand ODM. Anyone who can help me understand them better will do me a very great favour.

Why are you defined by what you are against? Why can't you be defined by what you stand for?

And who said that I am against ODM? By understanding where they stand, what they stand for, why they stand for what they stand, then I will be better able to either defend what they stand for, or totally disagree with what they stand for and be defined by such.

changing faces
written by Wuod Aketch , February 05, 2008

These remarks by the official leader of opposition have made me wonder what would have happened had he been in Kibaki's position now. He reminds me of those primary school teachers in our days who were right even when wrong on the basis that 'yeye ndiye anafunza kwa hivyo anajua'. By the way, what did he expect Kibaki speech to address?
Using demeaning language doesnt make Kibaki run out of state house or the AU not listen to him. And if other African presidents can support Mugabe and rant over him being denounced from the Commonwealth, why wouldn't they vouch for Kibaki who is a saint compared to Mugabe? I totally agree that ODM has run out of cards and I think the sympathy is also running out. Kobangoshe, you hit it right regarding the salary.

By the way whatever cause you are defending, the fact remains that Kenya was on the back bench of the AU summit. Many African countries will make you understand and show you that their respect for Kenya and Kenyans is now lower than sea level. Abdoulaye Wade the democratically elected president of Senegal had proposed that Raila and Kibaki be heard at the summit and that Kenya be the first topic on the discussion agenda.

Abdoulaye Wade : J'ai parl tout l'heure 頠 Raila Odinga, qui m'a dit qu'il souhaite venir transmettre un message, un message au sommet. Moi, je pense que c'est un minimum que nous puissions faire. Certes, Monsieur Kibaki sera l officiellement, parce qu'aujourd

...
written by Aliosema , February 05, 2008

The problem with ODM is that they think that pandering to the west will save them. They believe that the opinions of outsiders matter more than those of Kenyans and have worked hard to cultivate a following abroad. All speeches are geared towards the west and lists of westerners that support their cause touted as evidence of a country that needs outside intervention. For Wuod to claim that Abdoulaye Wades opinion really counts (he is seen in his own country as having failed them) is really a pathetic attempt at grasping for straws. You will not be saved by a bunch of illinformed foreigners who you have fooled and wowed with your media/communication strategy. Kenyans have heard and seen enough of the double speak and the world is fast catching up.

His Exc. Abdoulaye Wade
written by Wuod Aketch , February 05, 2008

Abdoulaye Wade : J'ai parlé tout à l'heure à Raila Odinga, qui m'a dit qu'il souhaite venir transmettre un message, un message au sommet. Moi, je pense que c'est un minimum que nous puissions faire. Certes, Monsieur Kibaki sera là officiellement, parce qu'aujourd'hui, c'est lui qui représente le Kenya. Mais étant donné ce qui s'est passé, il me semble que nous devrions entendre les deux. Donc, moi, je plaiderai pour qu'on lui (Odinga, Ndlr) permette de venir. Il a dit que dès qu'on lui fera signe, il viendra pour faire une communication ou transmettre un message au chef d'Etat.
Comme cette affaire dépasse les deux et prend des proportions qui détruisent même l'image de l'Afrique, car c'est l'image de l'Afrique qui est en jeu dans cette histoire du Kenya. On fait des élections

re: His Exc. Abdoulaye Wade
written by Nyabs , February 05, 2008

Abdoulaye Wade : J'ai parlé tout à l'heure à Raila Odinga, qui m'a
dit qu'il souhaite venir transmettre un message, un message au
sommet. Moi, je pense que c'est un minimum que nous puissions faire.
Certes, Monsieur Kibaki sera là officiellement, parce
qu'aujourd'hui, c'est lui qui représente le Kenya. Mais étant donné
ce qui s'est passé, il me semble que nous devrions entendre les
deux. Donc, moi, je plaiderai pour qu'on lui (Odinga, Ndlr) permette
de venir. Il a dit que dès qu'on lui fera signe, il viendra pour
faire une communication ou transmettre un message au chef d'Etat.

Comme cette affaire dépasse les deux et prend des proportions qui
détruisent même l'image de l'Afrique, car c'est l'image de l'Afrique
qui est en jeu dans cette histoire du Kenya. On fait des élections

For those of us who are not french speakers, this is a translation of what Wuod Aketch posted:

I have just talked to Raila, who has told me that he wishes to come and pass a message, a message to the summit. Me, I think it is the minimum that we could do. Certainly, Mr. Kibaki will be there officially, because as of today, it is him who represents Kenya.

But, given what has passed, it seems to me that we must listen to the two. Therefore, me, I plead that we allow Odinga to come. He told me that the moment we ask him to come, he will come to do a communication or pass a message to the Chief of State.

As (or seeing that) this affair is beyond the two and has taken proportions that destroy the image of Africa, because it is the image of Africa that is in play in this story of Kenya. They did the elections.....

Over to Wuod Aketch for reasons as to why he posted this!

Suite
written by Wuod Aketch , February 05, 2008

Over to Wuod Aketch for reasons as to why he posted this!

Can you continue your effort further here again @Nyabs,then you will understand the whole message that was shortened by this crude editing tool.

On fait des lections
nous avons une commission qui est soi-disant charge de veiller sur
la r驩gularit des lections, qui n'a pas pu pr驩voir des alternatives
difficiles, et nous nous trouvons tous devant cette situation-l. Je
pense que c'est un devoir pour nous d'appeler les deux et de les
entendre.

Attending AU is water under th
written by Bond , February 05, 2008

Had Abdoulaye Wade's influence at AU Heads of Sates been worth much, I am sure others of similar minds would have asked the chair to put the matter to vote. Now that Abdoulaye was unable to persuade support, it is to me water under the bridge and it will not add any value at this stage.
There will be many more international leadership fora, and there is no reason why Prof Anyang' Nyong'o or Salim Lone can not seek Raila's invitation in advance. IGAD meeting is coming in town, which is just a drive down from the comfortable Orange Mansion, and Raila can just walk in there, and 'demand' to be heard, and if not throw a few stones at them. What's the big deal.

re: Attending AU is water unde
written by Wuod Aketch , February 05, 2008

IGAD meeting is coming in town, which is just a drive down from the comfortable Orange Mansion, and Raila can just walk in there, and 'demand' to be heard, and if not throw a few stones at them. What's the big deal.

You sure will see stones being thrown, ODM has promised this. I guess that not many foreign ministers will attend, nobody would like to go looking for trouble. It sad for Nairobi. This is just the beginning if things do not change.

re: re:
written by Wuodabiero , February 06, 2008

My friend Nyabs, Raila is not going to court over Langata seat, he is being dragged there by Livondo, he has no choice but to appear unlike dragging Kibaki to court for stolen elections.

Thank you Kioko. I note the difference in the two cases. The question remains the same. It is the same courts, stuffed with Kibaki's cronies. What gives him confidence that he will find justice in his case with Livondo? Being the principled person that he is, he should argue that the courts will certainly rule in Livondo's favour and refuse to participate in a process that is already pre-judged,same argument that he is presenting on the presidential issue.

And why is Orengo receiving money to represent those who lost in the same courts that his Party Boss has no confidence in?

Makes you wonder.

They have no choice. To sit back and ignore the petitions means that the Courts will nullify their elections. COme on people!!! The institution of the judiciary is broken. No surprises that the CJ by an administrative gazette notice issued in January 07 (no doubt in anticipation of the election) deprived Kenyans of the right to invoke the High Court's supervisory role over the consequences of the decisions (or the lack thereof) of misbehaving public officials? When the police were slaughtering face-making demonstrators in Kisumu no application could be brought urgently to court to stop the the police from using live rounds to "manage" crowds ("We did not have rubber bullets.." Yeah, right!). And of the widespread looting on the 29th, the 'sacking of Kisumu' was planned and orchestrated. NTV news footage showed cheerful and laughing armed cops waving looters on and loading police Land Cruisers with 'exhibits' as the looting progressed. Reports I have heard from eyewitnesses abound of cops driving to the edges of the slums early on Saturday morning urging the residents to "go for it! What are you waiting for??"

The system has got to change. It may seem ethnic now, is manifesting as such and we're being whipped into an ethnic frenzy but it really is about unequally shared resources and the total corrupton of institutions and the culture of impunity from the concentration of too much executive power. This would happen if the President was an El Molo. Eventually it is abut two tribes in Kenya .. the 'haves' and the 'have nots'. If things don't change and the 'have nots' realise that they're wasting time hacking away at each other then what is happening now will seem like a kindergarten tantrum.

...
written by Nyabs , February 06, 2008

Wuod Abiero, you are still not seeing my point of view. If you have no confidence in the courts of law, you can choose not to go there to present a petition and you can also refuse to be summoned or to appear before the same courts because you don't consider the impartial when someone presents a petition against you.

You cannot, on one hand, say that you will not go to court when you have a grievance because you know they are partial and stuffed with somebody's cronies, but then rush to the same courts when someone presents a petition to challenge your election.

What makes you expect that in this instance, the courts would be impartial and nullify your opponents petition, and on the other instance, they would be partial and rule in favour of the person whose election you would have challenged.

It is like a coin, you cannot have the head and reject the tail. The coin comes as a package.

Nyabs
written by ndorobo , February 06, 2008

It is like a coin, you cannot have the head and reject the tail. The coin comes as a package.

@ Nyabs, you have it wrong, its like a fish, you can have the tail and reject the head. LOL

re: Suite
written by Nyabs , February 06, 2008

Over to Wuod Aketch for reasons as to why he posted this!

Can you continue your effort further here again @Nyabs,then you will understand the whole message that was shortened by this crude editing tool.

On fait des lections
nous avons une commission qui est soi-disant charge de veiller sur
la r驩gularit des lections, qui n'a pas pu pr驩voir des alternatives
difficiles, et nous nous trouvons tous devant cette situation-l. Je
pense que c'est un devoir pour nous d'appeler les deux et de les
entendre.

Ok. Here goes the second part of this translation.

They did the elections. We have a commission that was supposedly charged with overseing the election that could not foresee the difficulties that could arise (or alternative difficultie. His use of words here would render a direct translation meaningless) and we find ourselves before this situation. I think it is our duty for us to call the two and listen to them.

re: Nyabs
written by Nyabs , February 06, 2008

It is like a coin, you cannot have the head and reject the tail. The coin comes as a package.

@ Nyabs, you have it wrong, its like a fish, you can have the tail and reject the head. LOL

LOL. I never saw it in that perspective. I agree, that way, you can have the tail and reject the head!

re:
written by Wuod Aketch , February 06, 2008

The problem with ODM is that they think that pandering to the west will save them. They believe that the opinions of outsiders matter more than those of Kenyans and have worked hard to cultivate a following abroad. All speeches are geared towards the west and lists of westerners that support their cause touted as evidence of a country that needs outside intervention. For Wuod to claim that Abdoulaye Wades opinion really counts (he is seen in his own country as having failed them) is really a pathetic attempt at grasping for straws. You will not be saved by a bunch of illinformed foreigners who you have fooled and wowed with your media/communication strategy. Kenyans have heard and seen enough of the double speak and the world is fast catching up.

Remember that we share the African continent with other fellow Africans and actually we are the most pitiful neighbors of Abdoulaye Wades.

re:
written by a guest , February 12, 2008

Wuod Abiero, you are still not seeing my point of view. If you have no confidence in the courts of law, you can choose not to go there to present a petition and you can also refuse to be summoned or to appear before the same courts because you don't consider the impartial when someone presents a petition against you.

You cannot, on one hand, say that you will not go to court when you have a grievance because you know they are partial and stuffed with somebody's cronies, but then rush to the same courts when someone presents a petition to challenge your election.

What makes you expect that in this instance, the courts would be impartial and nullify your opponents petition, and on the other instance, they would be partial and rule in favour of the person whose election you would have challenged.

It is like a coin, you cannot have the head and reject the tail. The coin comes as a package.

My point is that in as much as they may have expressed a lack of confidence in the judiciary they cannot sit and ignore a process initiated against them. To react to summons is not necessarily an affirmating of confidence in he institution. Consider this analogy: One may have little confidence in seeking justice by the intitation of a complaint with a totally corrupt police force but one must nevertheless defend a complaint brought against one by a complainant no matter how frivolous it may appear or how biased the investigating authority may be perceived to be.