My TAKE
written by Closedthread , March 01, 2008

Well what were the other options under the current context?

An election? That would have been barking mad.

Re-count? Only a fool will think such a process will have resulted in any legitimacy

Resignation of Kibaki? As he has demonstrated only a heavenly recall would remove the old man from Statehouse.

A full executive PM? Even Raila knows that is a pipe dream in the current affairs of things

The pre-deal status quo? Only a deluded PNU activist in Nyeri thought that was tennable.

It is the best deal under the circumstance and it provides the two tribal groupings with a space to review their respective potency. ODM will seek to solidify its anti-GEMA coalition whle PNU will focus on expanding the GEMA outfit to include the Kisii and the Akamba.

The inescapable future

We cannot run way from majimbo either as a de facto or De jure system. It is a reality we should not waste time fighting but one which we should address with sober minds (at least to mitigates its obvious ugly sides)

This is the knew Kenya - if only we could undertake a proper electoral review and adopt a parliamentary system but that is a dream as the Muthaiga boys in both ODM and PNU are now well catered for to bother about a future they are sure they will not be around to see.

...
written by Cicero , March 01, 2008

Of paramount importance to the average, hardworking Kenyan is peace. So we should all hail this new development as long as it means peace and an equal opportunity for all to prosper.

What is seriously needed now is a comprehensive review of the constitution so that we should not come to expect bloodshed every election year. The ECK and the judiciary need to be revamped to ensure thorough independence both in practice and perception such that should election dispute arise in the future (as they surely will) there is going to be a credible framework of handling such disputes.

There also has be serious talk on how tutaishi pamoja. We do not have a Kenya if I cannot settle and live peacefully in certain parts of the country. That is totally unacceptable. The constitution is clear on property ownership in Kenya but perhaps we should dig into the past and address this nonsense of seasonal evictions once and for all. There needs to be a clear proclamation of the right of every Kenyan to buy land and settle whenever he/she deems fit and consequences of interfering with this basic tenet of a free society should be made clear and severe.

A sober, de-tribalized debate on devolution could also do our country some good. If citizens feel as though they have a stake in their economy, may be they will not be as brisk in destroying their cities and towns next time they have a grievance. This is also going to address the problem of inequality and the much talked about skewed allocation of resources. In short, devolution is going to rob off the lazy and unresourceful bum his excuse for failure.

Long live Kenya.

...
written by tumaina , March 02, 2008

i have been a strong proponent of strong institutions and I believe many Kenyans do, but does this arrangement assure us of strong institutions.Tribalism is not such a bad thing the problem is negative ethnicity as clearly put in Koigi's "Negative Ethnicity- Bias...", we , as Kenyans, lost in the elections and in the subsequent peace deal. We write because we cant talk. My question is who will save us?

But is tribalism by itself not inherently negative? Eds.

...
written by Kamale , March 03, 2008

A friend of mine called me on Saturday morning and told me that in a talk show the previous night on Jakoyo Midiwo's Umoja Radio, the callers were in curious uniformity first congratulating His Excellency the Prime Minister, Hon. Raila Odinga for sealing a deal with Kibaki. Absolutely nothing wrong since even the media has been feeding us with the same story about how Raila will be crowned Prime Minister.

But knowing that I have a devious mind at times, and thinking on how we can keep the deal intact and still deny Raila the Prime Minister's post, I went to look at the Agreement as reported. I also anticipated that the Reconciliation Act will be based largely on what was agreed between the two political leaders before Kofi Annan.

The Agreement provides that the leader of the party or coalition with the largest number of members parliament will provide a prime minister, whilst each of the two parties will provide a deputy prime minister. The Act CANNOT provide for the name of a Prime Minister, so it is not a done deal that Raila will be the prime minister.

So how can anyone that dislikes Raila deny him the post? Well the first thing is numbers. ODM as a party has 97 members and has largely relied on Ngilu's NARC members to fill up the numbers. At the speaker's election, the numbers were pretty close at about 102-102 with the 2 luhyia members filling up the balance. ODM has already lost two sits to deaths in office and it is currently only assured of the Ainamoi seat as the Embakasi seat can be won by PNU is they sort out their confusion of multiple candidates which saw Were sneak through. The Kamukunji and Kilgoris seats are also possible for PNU with Wajir being a toss up following the voter tie. I assume that the Emuhaya seat will be retained by ODM even with the slight majority that Marende had in winning it.

Assuming that ODM won Ainamoi and Wajir, this would give it a total of 103 seats and a possible PNU coalition total of 107 to complete the 210 seats. The nomination seats are equally shared so these would not affect the arithmetics.

So, if PNU were to get organised and marshall the numbers, they could still be the coalition with the largest numbers in the house and hence provide a Prime Minister in terms of the Kibaki and Raila agreement. I am aware that there are members from both sides who do not seem happy with this agreement and the murmurings of the Kalenjins that they were left out hanging by the deal that did not provide for the safety of their leaders is sufficiently telling.

The other scary part of the agreement is that a PM and or his deputies can be removed from office by a "majority". Now what majority are we talking about? 50% plus one of all Members or just a simple majority MPs in the house? I appreciate I am speculating here, but this is the wording of Key Point No. 5 - The Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Ministers can only be removed if the National Assembly passes a motion of no confidence with a majority vote.

In another thread, I have alluded to the point about disollution of the coalition where I suggested that Kibaki can pull out of the deal one year after formation of the coalition and this would revert the status quo as the entrenchment of the Act in the constitution cannot include the dissolution of government and fresh elections coming.

So whilst Kenyans celebrate the birth of a new deal, it is important to read carefully what the two politicians committed themselves to. We just managed to force the two politicians to buy Kenyans a few months of peace before it explodes on our faces again!

Not such a bad thing?!
written by Aggey , March 03, 2008

Tribalism is an aspect of human nature, so it must once have served a purpose, but it no longer does. It

...
written by a guest , March 03, 2008

hmmm...THe question that's really gnawing at me and a great part of Ukambani I'm sure is what's going to happen to Kalonzo Musyoka?

re: Kalonzo
written by Wuod Aketch , March 03, 2008

hmmm...THe question that's really gnawing at me and a great part of Ukambani I'm sure is what's going to happen to Kalonzo Musyoka?

We don't need him, we have our Ngilu, Kalembe ... in Ukambani. Kalonzo committed harakiri when he joined Kibaki. His case is already a big lesson to everybody. The man lacks personality and is a traitor as his former allies put it.

re: Kalonzo
written by Kim G , March 03, 2008

hmmm...THe question that's really gnawing at me and a great part of Ukambani I'm sure is what's going to happen to Kalonzo Musyoka?

Kenyans are too quick to pass judgements on events. The Peace Deal is hardly three days old and already Kalonzo is getting written off! Its too early to say with certainty that Kalonzos star is dimming just because a couple of MPs from Ukambani are angling for positions for themselves. Kiema Kilonzo rode to Parliament on the shadow of his late father, ex Police Commissioner Phillip Kilonzo. Kiema is a political greenhorn who thinks he deserves big things.

Kalonzo Musyoka is the man to watch as far as the Conservative ideological axis is concerned (Kenyas version of the neo cons). After Kibaki, this group does not have a ready candidate to run for president apart from Kalonzo. Should Kibaki not be able to finish his term of office, again Kalonzo will be their only candidate to take the opposition (read Raila). Therefore, the attacks on Kalonzo by those against the PNU and ODMK coalition should be viewed in this light. It is an avenue for minimizing his clout in the post Kibaki succession.

As for Kiema Kilonzo, I advise him to use his youth to gain political experience. There are far more older and wiser people who can serve as cabinet ministers.

Stephen Kalonzo Musyoka
written by Johnny B. Goode , March 03, 2008

I doubt the govt. would be so dumb as to dump Kalonzo. Quite frankly without Kalonzo, the heat on them would have been 10 times hotter, and they'd have ended up settling for an even worse deal than the one they settled on now. The battle is also not over and the PNU brigade frankly needs ODM-K to have the numbers to be able to push its agenda through. I"m sure the competition will go on even in government. Personally I think that it was a smart move for Kalonzo because if the gets the GEMA backing during the next elections, he'd have one foot in the State house. GEMA + AKamba = 40% of the Kenyan population.

fire in the works
written by Ngigi wa Kamau , March 03, 2008

I think there are several issues that few have considered.

Firstly, there is the question of democratic legitimacy. A dangerous precedent is likely to be set with nefarious characters unwilling to accept electoral defeat anytime we have a close contest. Given the ethno-political dynamics operative in Kenya, this is likely to be a constantly recurring possibility.

This then raises the issue of the citizen's role in deciding who governs. As it is, in the past 9 weeks, 9 million voters have been reduced to mere bystanders while two individuals haggle over an acceptable accommodation. ODM was the spoilt brat in this alienation. If Raila wasn't going to have the toy, none of us would.

The more immediate issue that will arise this week is whether the PNU coalition will vote under duress or based on conscience. If the latter, there are likely to be dark days ahead.

Firstly, no Central Kenya MP is willing to be seen to actively endorse a deal that grants constitutional legitimacy to perceived inciters & aggressors. Therefore, at best, there will only be an Act of Parliament with no constitutional protection afforded to the PM, if any.

The intrigues in ODM-K also mean that the Eastern bloc will not actively participate in a diminution of their bargaining position to appease 'Jesus & his Pentagon disciples'! This is especially after Kamba's turned victim on Kalonzo's acceptance of the VP post.

Moreover, it will be much harder for the US & UK to threaten the imposition of sanctions to the whole institution of parliament. Thus, there is room to call bluffs in so far as the 'unspecified' action is concerned. As pointed out, the deal as negotiated can result in larger portfolios for PNU.

With tens of thousands still resident in IDP camps nationwide, i doubt that this stop-gap measure will inspire the confidence necessary to enable a transformation of our country. Perhaps it is time we started praying for a heavenly recall of the top 4 protagonists to enable a clean break.

The 2nd Chamber
written by Paul Kimani , March 03, 2008

I've seen the idea floated on this boards of a second chamber. At first I was averse to it as it creates more bureaucracy, but the more I think about it, the more I see it as a way out. First Kenya should be defined to reflect what it really is a commonwealth of 45 tribe(include the asians, the arabs and the whites). Based on this reality, we should form a 2nd chamber that is purely tribal in nature. The members will be selected according to tribal strength or percentages. Tribes that are less than 1 % of the Kenyan population will automatically get a member each. They'll be automatically over represented. The others will build on that. Taking our current numbers in account, the Agikuyu will have 22 members, the Luo 13, The Luhya 14, the Kalenjin 12, the Kamba 11 and so on. By that account and I'm not betting my money on it, we'd end up with a chamber that has about a 100 members, give or take. This chamber will have a near gender balance as possible. The elections to join will be done like in the south American world cup qualifiers. So many people apply, and in the case of the Agikuyu, the first 11 men and the first 11 women are elected into the chamber. Obviously because of the odd numbers, complete parity will not be achievable but we can come close. The functions that go into this chamber are what would be done by a justice and truth commission. It will offer various communities the chance of airing their grievances and have some latitude into providing solutions.That means they'll have control of so much funds that can be allocated from the budget for example. The thing that would have come out from such a chamber, is what it is exactly that the Kalenjin want. What's with all this expansionism? 2nd, the chamber would have the right to watch out for the likes of Balala and be able yto impose financial penalties for those who chose to abuse the freedom of speech. The money collected would be used for the common good.

...
written by manta ray , March 03, 2008

Good idea Paul. It is worth exploring.

...
written by benadede , March 04, 2008

For the period that this coalition will last, I see it as an avenue for new opportunities and one that will kill off some politicians.

For starters, I think both Raila and Kibaki have been given a long rope to hang themselves. More so Raila. It will be interesting to see whom the two camps propose for various positions within government. I mean, if Raila for instance proposes Ntimama, that is a sure negative. I am also waiting to see how the gender question and affirmative action will be dealt with by the two camps.

For the opportunities, I see this as an interesting time, with no official opposition, in which alliances across party lines can be built to form a quasi opposition group. I am hoping the younger MPs will take this cue to form a viable alternative to our entrenched dinasour politicians and thus give one of them a launching pad for gunning for the top seat at the next election.

re:
written by manta ray , March 04, 2008

For the period that this coalition will last, I see it as an avenue for new opportunities and one that will kill off some politicians.

For starters, I think both Raila and Kibaki have been given a long rope to hang themselves. More so Raila. It will be interesting to see whom the two camps propose for various positions within government. I mean, if Raila for instance proposes Ntimama, that is a sure negative. I am also waiting to see how the gender question and affirmative action will be dealt with by the two camps.

For the opportunities, I see this as an interesting time, with no official opposition, in which alliances across party lines can be built to form a quasi opposition group. I am hoping the younger MPs will take this cue to form a viable alternative to our entrenched dinasour politicians and thus give one of them a launching pad for gunning for the top seat at the next election.

Precisely, Benadede. I agree with you. It is time for Kenyans to realise that this an opportunity to have a generational change from that of the current politicians who control the PNU and ODM, ODM-K, and so on.
The opportunity should not, however, be limited to the current MPs. That would be a big mistake. Once the constitution is changed, it is time to pick up the ball from the buffoons who proliferate our political landscape across tribal lines and other social set ups. We should not tolerate the likes of uneducated councillors leading a city like Nairobi,for example.
I heard the deputy Mayor speaking today and it was very embarrassing for me as a Kikuyu to listen to the guy's thick accent and daft proposals. How did the country end up here?
I was heartened to hear the business community proclaim that they would no longer allow the politicians to monopolise decision making. However, in my view, that is just hot air. Big business is dominated too much by the very dinosaurs we would like to step aside, and are more correctly the symbiotic twin of the polticians.

It is therefore imperative that both business and politics is controlled by a majority of the younger generation between the ages of 21 and 55.
High achievers in Kenya in this age group, plus educated and successful Kenyans in the diaspora need to vie for political office and business leadership.
These Kenyans are the ones with the capacity to fast-track and set the standards that ordinary Kenyans will learn and come to expect from leadership.

The System
written by a guest , March 04, 2008

Precisely, Benadede. I agree with you. It is time for Kenyans to realise that this an opportunity to have a generational change from that of the current politicians who control the PNU and ODM, ODM-K, and so on.
The opportunity should not, however, be limited to the current MPs. That would be a big mistake. Once the constitution is changed, it is time to pick up the ball from the buffoons who proliferate our political landscape across tribal lines and other social set ups. We should not tolerate the likes of uneducated councillors leading a city like Nairobi,for example.
I heard the deputy Mayor speaking today and it was very embarrassing for me as a Kikuyu to listen to the guy's thick accent and daft proposals. How did the country end up here?
I was heartened to hear the business community proclaim that they would no longer allow the politicians to monopolise decision making. However, in my view, that is just hot air. Big business is dominated too much by the very dinosaurs we would like to step aside, and are more correctly the symbiotic twin of the polticians.

It is therefore imperative that both business and politics is controlled by a majority of the younger generation between the ages of 21 and 55.
High achievers in Kenya in this age group, plus educated and successful Kenyans in the diaspora need to vie for political office and business leadership.
These Kenyans are the ones with the capacity to fast-track and set the standards that ordinary Kenyans will learn and come to expect from leadership.

My friends, you are missing the point. It is not the age of the politician that matters. The politician can be 100 years old or 20 years old. That is not the important thing. What matters is the system and the institutions. A corruptible system will continue churning our corrupt politicians, young or old. You'll continue to lay your hopes on the wrong breed of people and you'll continue being disappointed. Improve the system, and stop treating this folks like demi gods. They are not worth it. A healthy vibrant society needs contributions from all its members. None should be ostracized on whatever ground.

...
written by benadede , March 04, 2008

Age becomes an important factor because it is more likely that older politicians/leaders have been beneficiaries of these weak structures and will not be willing to see them changed.

The younger ones who have not been beneficiaries of the system are much more likely to change the system but it will not be long before the dinasours socialize them into their old ways.

On our part as Kenyans, we are guilty of failing to support new leaders on the basis that they do not have financial clout, sizeable ethnic backing, experience e.t.c That is our contribution to the rot we have and we must change this.

re: Stephen Kalonzo Musyoka
written by Kenyan , March 04, 2008

Personally I think that it was a smart move for Kalonzo because if the gets the GEMA backing during the next elections, he'd have one foot in the State house. GEMA + AKamba = 40% of the Kenyan population.

Somehow I don't think there will be another GEMA president/ prime minister for a long long time. The Balala's, Odinga's, Ruto's and East African Standard have made sure of that. I could just be a pessimist but maybe we out to look at which are the best candidates, across all tribal lines, to win the next election and keep this country moving forward. So far, I don't see anyone who has what Kenya needs to take us forward.

The only person I keep hearing appealing to ALL of us Kenyans, regardless of political affiliation or tribe, is Waangari Maathai. But she won't win anyones vote anytime soon, will she?

re: re: Stephen Kalonzo Musyok
written by Johnny B. Goode , March 04, 2008

Personally I think that it was a smart move for Kalonzo because if the gets the GEMA backing during the next elections, he'd have one foot in the State house. GEMA + AKamba = 40% of the Kenyan population.

Somehow I don't think there will be another GEMA president/ prime minister for a long long time. The Balala's, Odinga's, Ruto's and East African Standard have made sure of that. I could just be a pessimist but maybe we out to look at which are the best candidates, across all tribal lines, to win the next election and keep this country moving forward. So far, I don't see anyone who has what Kenya needs to take us forward.

The only person I keep hearing appealing to ALL of us Kenyans, regardless of political affiliation or tribe, is Waangari Maathai. But she won't win anyones vote anytime soon, will she?

Trust me, there will be. And that man will be Uhuru Kenyatta. God willing of course. Musyoka is not GEMA. If the Kamba were part of the coalition, then that group could reasonably rotate the presidency amongst them forever. If Musyoka plays his cards right he is half way into the state house already. The first move was accepting the VP slot at a time when GEMA was under fire. We saw and we appreciated. The 2nd move was in dishing out nominations slots. Two muslims. They are also an important constituency with 11%. The simple fact is barring heavy population changes, GEMA has the numbers in a democratic set up to continue winning elections either as the Kings or the King makers, any time one is held. The best Raila, Ruto, Balala, the standard newspapers and co is encourage their women to have a lot of kids and quick but that plan will take about 18 years to come to fruition, if they start now. The parliamentary system disfavours GEMA though and that has to be addressed, if we are to switch over to that system. How do you explain the current Governing coalition having 5 million votes between them, (ODM figures Kibaki 4.1M + Musyoka 0.9 M = 5.0 M) and yet not having the majority in parliament? That's a difference of 700 000 votes! Raila had 4.3 Million according to ODM. The More interesting question is whether the equally big Luhya, Luo, Kalenjin (14% + 13% + 12% = 39%)alliance will stand the test of time. The first test of fire will be how the sides react at not getting the Deputy VP slot. A highly useless and unnecessary post if you ask me. Waangari Mathai does not appeal to me and I doubt she appeals to many in the GEMA community. It's like Jesus said and George Bush echoed. If you are not for us, you are against us.

Of The Young And Old
written by James Macharia , March 04, 2008

Age becomes an important factor because it is more likely that older politicians/leaders have been beneficiaries of these weak structures and will not be willing to see them changed.

The younger ones who have not been beneficiaries of the system are much more likely to change the system but it will not be long before the dinasours socialize them into their old ways.

On our part as Kenyans, we are guilty of failing to support new leaders on the basis that they do not have financial clout, sizeable ethnic backing, experience e.t.c That is our contribution to the rot we have and we must change this.

Nah, age is insignificant. Corrupt ways catcheth fast. Politics is not the best place to go if you want to change the world. Not unless you want to die a martyr. The system swallows all, men, women, young or old. A man in Kibakis shoes right now, is ironically the best bet you have at changing the system. He is old, he has nothing to lose because he has already done his rounds. A young man with power will be much more resistant to change as he wants to eat more. A lot of constitutional changes did happen during Mois last terms. People forget. Why would the young want to change something beneficial to a politician when they haven't even been fed yet?

Not Uhuru. Please.
written by mkosakabila , March 04, 2008

Somehow I don't think there will be another GEMA president/ prime minister for a long long time. ?

You sound unhappy about this.

The only person I keep hearing appealing to ALL of us Kenyans, regardless of political affiliation or tribe, is Waangari Maathai. But she won't win anyones vote anytime soon, will she?

Why wont Prof. Maathai win votes any time soon? Anyway, I think there are many people out there (this absolutely excludes Uhuru!) from across Kenya who can do a very good job and who we will get to know about in due course. I hope we will give them a chance.
Forget about Uhuru.

re: Not Uhuru. Please.
written by Kenyan , March 04, 2008

Somehow I don't think there will be another GEMA president/ prime minister for a long long time. ?

You sound unhappy about this.

Nope, not unhappy that there wont be a gema president for a while, just unhappy at how tribal issues have overpowered literally everything in Kenya. All one person has to do is raise fears of dominance and that clouds whatever good they can bring to the country. Like it or not, Kenya is now ethnicised (is that a word?) and we won't get over it any time soon. But at the end of the day, we just need the next prez to be a sound person, capable of uniting Kenya and bringing prosperity to Kenya andd all Kenyans. Is there should a man or woman on the radar right now?

Why wont Prof. Maathai win votes any time soon?.....Forget about Uhuru.

Oh no way would I vote for Uhuru. I think Kenyans, all Kenyans, tried to send that message to him in 2002. He has not shown himself to be worthy. As for Maathai, she's gema and female and has her environmental movement taking up a lot of her time. I think the odds are stacked against her.

As for Kalonzo, he's almost in the same class as Uhuru - I haven't seen much substance there. No show of wisdom. But then again, I don't know the man well.

Uhuru
written by mkosakabila , March 04, 2008

Is he part of the.....Kiambu mafia? Is there such a thing? Pardon my asking at this time of such great sensitivity.

re:
written by Paul Kimani , March 04, 2008

A friend of mine called me on Saturday morning and told me that in a talk show the previous night on Jakoyo Midiwo's Umoja Radio, the callers were in curious uniformity first congratulating His Excellency the Prime Minister, Hon. Raila Odinga for sealing a deal with Kibaki. Absolutely nothing wrong since even the media has been feeding us with the same story about how Raila will be crowned Prime Minister.

But knowing that I have a devious mind at times, and thinking on how we can keep the deal intact and still deny Raila the Prime Minister's post, I went to look at the Agreement as reported. I also anticipated that the Reconciliation Act will be based largely on what was agreed between the two political leaders before Kofi Annan.

The Agreement provides that the leader of the party or coalition with the largest number of members parliament will provide a prime minister, whilst each of the two parties will provide a deputy prime minister. The Act CANNOT provide for the name of a Prime Minister, so it is not a done deal that Raila will be the prime minister.

So how can anyone that dislikes Raila deny him the post? Well the first thing is numbers. ODM as a party has 97 members and has largely relied on Ngilu's NARC members to fill up the numbers. At the speaker's election, the numbers were pretty close at about 102-102 with the 2 luhyia members filling up the balance. ODM has already lost two sits to deaths in office and it is currently only assured of the Ainamoi seat as the Embakasi seat can be won by PNU is they sort out their confusion of multiple candidates which saw Were sneak through. The Kamukunji and Kilgoris seats are also possible for PNU with Wajir being a toss up following the voter tie. I assume that the Emuhaya seat will be retained by ODM even with the slight majority that Marende had in winning it.

Assuming that ODM won Ainamoi and Wajir, this would give it a total of 103 seats and a possible PNU coalition total of 107 to complete the 210 seats. The nomination seats are equally shared so these would not affect the arithmetics.

So, if PNU were to get organised and marshall the numbers, they could still be the coalition with the largest numbers in the house and hence provide a Prime Minister in terms of the Kibaki and Raila agreement. I am aware that there are members from both sides who do not seem happy with this agreement and the murmurings of the Kalenjins that they were left out hanging by the deal that did not provide for the safety of their leaders is sufficiently telling.

The other scary part of the agreement is that a PM and or his deputies can be removed from office by a "majority". Now what majority are we talking about? 50% plus one of all Members or just a simple majority MPs in the house? I appreciate I am speculating here, but this is the wording of Key Point No. 5 - The Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Ministers can only be removed if the National Assembly passes a motion of no confidence with a majority vote.

In another thread, I have alluded to the point about disollution of the coalition where I suggested that Kibaki can pull out of the deal one year after formation of the coalition and this would revert the status quo as the entrenchment of the Act in the constitution cannot include the dissolution of government and fresh elections coming.

So whilst Kenyans celebrate the birth of a new deal, it is important to read carefully what the two politicians committed themselves to. We just managed to force the two politicians to buy Kenyans a few months of peace before it explodes on our faces again!

Kamale, Kilgoris is going ODM. Raila beat Kibaki by over 12 000 votes there. I think the best bets for pro PNU forces are Embakasi, Wajir North and Kamukunji. Emuhaya is a toss up. Ainamoi and Kilgoris are ODM. Anyway I agree, as it stands, it is 108-108 in the house right now, which goes to show the stupidity of the parliamentary system. If you are gonna go that route, at least make the number of MPS odd. That way someone will always have a majority.

Devolution
written by Paul Kimani , March 04, 2008

What next for Kenya? Well we can move pretty fast if the Political will is there. In my mind, we are better off sticking to the presidential rather than the parliamentary system. The Parliamentary system is something akin ti the councilors voting to for the mayor. We've all seen the results. Electing a man or woman directly accountable to us is a far superior system, albeit some of the powers of the president should be devolved to parliament. Devolution is definitely in the works If a political and economic solution can be found then CDF is all the devolution we need. Devolution is not a one way street , though, contrary to what some may thin. It needs a very powerful centre. The whole system works in a way a kin to a reversable chemical equation. A word of caution on CDF, though. The story is told of a man who on going for a long journey called his servants together. One he gave 5 talents, another 2 and the last one 1. The man who got 5 invested and made double. He who got 2 invested likewise and got 4. The last one buried his 1 and when the master came back he had only his one to give back. The man was banished and his 1 talent was taken from him and given to the one with 10.
(From the bible, not quoted verbatim but from memory)

The moral of the story is if you operate on a totally devolved system and region A invest wisely, while region B misappropriates funds, you'll have even much greater inequality than in a unitary system, which btw, contrary to common belief has devolution automatically built in, and that will cause even greater tensions.

re: re: Stephen Kalonzo Musyok
written by Wanjiku , March 04, 2008

Personally I think that it was a smart move for Kalonzo because if the gets the GEMA backing during the next elections, he'd have one foot in the State house. GEMA + AKamba = 40% of the Kenyan population.

Somehow I don't think there will be another GEMA president/ prime minister for a long long time. The Balala's, Odinga's, Ruto's and East African Standard have made sure of that. I could just be a pessimist but maybe we out to look at which are the best candidates, across all tribal lines, to win the next election and keep this country moving forward. So far, I don't see anyone who has what Kenya needs to take us forward.

The only person I keep hearing appealing to ALL of us Kenyans, regardless of political affiliation or tribe, is Waangari Maathai. But she won't win anyones vote anytime soon, will she?

I would hate to see great politicians like Raphael Tuju fall by the side. Although the guy wasn't able to make it into parliament, it's my hope that he'll live to fight another day. Honestly speaking, if the guy was to run for presidency today, he would most surely have my vote. I think he possesses some qualities which make his appeal span across tribal lines. I hope that the people of Rarieda will, five years from now, look back and see what a stupid mistake they made (of course, our hope is that their MP will actually continue the good work that Tuju started).

editor
written by george , March 04, 2008

one of the things you don't understand, Mr Kimani, is that the coalistion is not between ODM and the rest of the pasties bound together, but between OD and PNU. PNU has 47 MPs while ODM has 97. ODM-K isn't accounted for. That's why for purposes of the PM election, they are not useful. ODM will provide the PM. Now, again, if the grand coalition collapses by virtue of one party walking out or a vote of no confidence, we don't go back to the status quo, it automatically triggers a general election. Tell me which MP would want to go back for election? they aren't sure they'll be back. Moreover, this is Kibaki's last term, and so he'll be barred from contesting again. Moreover, he knows the rest of the country, but central and perhaps eastern may vote for him. He won't get a vote anywhere else. he'll lose again, just like he lost in December. He's not stupid. We won't risk his power for someone else in the Gema group.

re: Uhuru Kenyatta?
written by Msenangu , March 04, 2008

Trust me, there will be. And that man will be Uhuru Kenyatta.

Totally disagree with Johnny B Goode. Not in this lifetime would I vote for another Kenyatta. I worked for a time for the Kenyatta family and from Mama Ngina herself to the rest of them, you do not want to know how much property they own. They could have paid for it, but there is something wrong with someone owning the whole strip from Nyayo Stadium along Uhuru Highway to the Roundabout going into town (forget what its called) all the dealerships and stores along the Highway pay rent to the Kenyattas. That strip being one of the many owned by the Kenyatta family and was acquired during Kenyatta's era. I'm sorry, but Uhuru Kenyatta, its not going to happen.

...
written by a guest , March 04, 2008

Johnny: staying with that thought of non-Gema communities cranking up the reproduction line (something echoed in another thread here), I don't doubt that it will happen. The only issue would be the drop in living standards that would potentially be experienced by those having a large number of kids. Unless there's some form of social security/welfare grant to raise them. But I suppose it would pay off post-18 years when those communities would be able to vote 'their own' in without any competition. 18 years is a long time, and one can only pray that we'll have modernized our thinking, and realized that "it's the economy stupid!"

re: editor
written by Kamale , March 05, 2008

one of the things you don't understand, Mr Kimani, is that the coalistion is not between ODM and the rest of the pasties bound together, but between OD and PNU. PNU has 47 MPs while ODM has 97. ODM-K isn't accounted for. That's why for purposes of the PM election, they are not useful. ODM will provide the PM. Now, again, if the grand coalition collapses by virtue of one party walking out or a vote of no confidence, we don't go back to the status quo, it automatically triggers a general election. Tell me which MP would want to go back for election? they aren't sure they'll be back. Moreover, this is Kibaki's last term, and so he'll be barred from contesting again. Moreover, he knows the rest of the country, but central and perhaps eastern may vote for him. He won't get a vote anywhere else. he'll lose again, just like he lost in December. He's not stupid. We won't risk his power for someone else in the Gema group.

George,

May I suggest that you re-read the agreement in its entirety. No where in the agreement does it provide for a new election should the coalition fail for one reason or other.

It is irritating when spurious meanings are given to an agreement that is in simple english and whose simplicity was deliberate.

re: re: Uhuru Kenyatta?
written by Johnny B. Goode , March 05, 2008

Totally disagree with Johnny B Goode. Not in this lifetime would I vote for another Kenyatta. I worked for a time for the Kenyatta family and from Mama Ngina herself to the rest of them, you do not want to know how much property they own. They could have paid for it, but there is something wrong with someone owning the whole strip from Nyayo Stadium along Uhuru Highway to the Roundabout going into town (forget what its called) all the dealerships and stores along the Highway pay rent to the Kenyattas. That strip being one of the many owned by the Kenyatta family and was acquired during Kenyatta's era. I'm sorry, but Uhuru Kenyatta, its not going to happen.

Yours is but one vote. I don't know how much support you can marshall to stop Uhuru. The die was cast when Uhuru threw his lot in with Kibaki. Same as Stevo did. This are strategic moves. The masses will know to appreciate the value of such gestures. But then again 5 years Politics is a game of numbers. In the states it means Whites, Latinos, Blacks and Asians, Liberals and conservatives. In Kenya it means Kikuyus, Luos, Luhyas and what have you. It doesn't mean that other people won't have a shot, but the issue of tribe will have to be addressed at any given time. This is why the ODM blue print of having key point men from different tribes will be the likely way to go in the future. For all intents and purposes it will remain the same. It's just the nature of the game. Even Winston Churchill said it's not the best system but the least worst. Obviously we have to fine tune the system to fine tune it to our needs but generally, thats the nature of democracy. The gestures done by Uhuru or Stevo will reverberate with the masses. Granted there are those who will form some form of resistance based on the arguments you have raised. However there are no illusions about politicians, they are all a corrupt bunch and politics is a dirty game. The key is refining the system so that we have less of politicians running the show and more professionals doing it. The politicians job should just be to create a conducive environment under which all citizens can thrive.

re:
written by Johnny B. Goode , March 05, 2008

Johnny: staying with that thought of non-Gema communities cranking up the reproduction line (something echoed in another thread here), I don't doubt that it will happen. The only issue would be the drop in living standards that would potentially be experienced by those having a large number of kids. Unless there's some form of social security/welfare grant to raise them. But I suppose it would pay off post-18 years when those communities would be able to vote 'their own' in without any competition. 18 years is a long time, and one can only pray that we'll have modernized our thinking, and realized that "it's the economy stupid!"

Not gonna happen. I know politicians hold a disturbingly high hold on the Kenyan public but even that has limits. The possibility was offered in jest.

...
written by manta ray , March 05, 2008

Changing the politically ignorant mentality of Kenyans is going to be very difficult. As i keep emphasizing, learn to deal with politics as it is, not as you wish it to be.

I had earlier opined that this is a great opportunity for the political dynamics to be changed to reflect Kenyan demographic realities, and NOT just the tribal, but also the social. That should happen with the comprehensive constitutional review to be completed in 12 months as per the National Accord.

Now, the constitutional review should provide for the entrenchment of institutions and their primacy in governance. Ideally, it should not matter how many tribal alliances there are or where the President or Prime Minister comes from.
The tribal alliances are, however, a reality of our times, and will be so for next 50 years.
There is nothing inherently wrong with tribal alliances. As someone pointed out, even in the US elections, people have been voting on their ethnic affiliations, and so majority of black people are for Obama and Latinos for Clinton.

The new constitution should therefore present an opportunity for young, educated and untainted politicians to cut all ties to the the past and politics as usual, OWN the document, ensure its implementation, and apply it to suit the aspirations of the majority who happen to be young. It is the time therefore to set new standards of leadership that will propel Kenya to the paradise that most of us desire.
It is disingenuous of some to claim that Uhuru can never be a future Prime Minister or President. Given the huge GEMA vote block and the dynamics of Kenya's political alliances for the foreseeable future, also the fact that under a constitutional review, GEMA parliamentary seats are likely to increase significantly to reflect the population, it is a cinch that whoever gets the backing of the GEMA vote is as good as President.
Uhuru is likely to be the pre-eminent GEMA politician most of Central Kenya will coalesce around in readiness for the Kibaki succession. Saitoti will not be a significant factor as he is not only older and is therefore detached from younger voters who are the majority, but is seen to represents the past we need to move away from.
It is unlikely GEMA will present a Presidential candidate, depending of course on the political haggling of the day. Those therefore dismissing Kalonzo have no idea how Kenyan politics works. If Kalonzo strikes a deal with himself for President,Uhuru as Prime Minister and a Muslim like Taib for Vice President, he is through, and a General Election could come as soon as the new constitution is in place, probably in 2010.
A Kalonzo/Uhuru/Taib alliance is therefore very likely in 2010, going by word on the ground.

no, NOT Uhuru. Please.
written by mkosakabila , March 05, 2008

I don't know how much support you can marshall to stop Uhuru.

Ask one Raila Amolo Odinga on how to mobilize support. With Uhuru, I doubt one would even need to preach hate and or tribe to mobilize against him, or even in support of him. Empty debe.

In your use of the tribal arithmetic you forgot that the G, E and M in GEMA or even the Akamba will still also need to be mobilized in support of him, as would the constituent groupings of the G. He happens not to be Emilio. Big sigh.

Simply put, am just not a big fan of the Chania river nonsense nor of super privilege by inheritance nor of dynasty. Yet I could never be against the House of Mumbi.

So heres one more vote not for Uhuru.

I look forward to choosing from a pool of very exciting possibilities, and there's a bunch out there, Tuju included.

re:
written by Johnny B. Goode , March 05, 2008

Changing the politically ignorant mentality of Kenyans is going to be very difficult. As i keep emphasizing, learn to deal with politics as it is, not as you wish it to be.

I had earlier opined that this is a great opportunity for the political dynamics to be changed to reflect Kenyan demographic realities, and NOT just the tribal, but also the social. That should happen with the comprehensive constitutional review to be completed in 12 months as per the National Accord.

Now, the constitutional review should provide for the entrenchment of institutions and their primacy in governance. Ideally, it should not matter how many tribal alliances there are or where the President or Prime Minister comes from.
The tribal alliances are, however, a reality of our times, and will be so for next 50 years.
There is nothing inherently wrong with tribal alliances. As someone pointed out, even in the US elections, people have been voting on their ethnic affiliations, and so majority of black people are for Obama and Latinos for Clinton.

The new constitution should therefore present an opportunity for young, educated and untainted politicians to cut all ties to the the past and politics as usual, OWN the document, ensure its implementation, and apply it to suit the aspirations of the majority who happen to be young. It is the time therefore to set new standards of leadership that will propel Kenya to the paradise that most of us desire.
It is disingenuous of some to claim that Uhuru can never be a future Prime Minister or President. Given the huge GEMA vote block and the dynamics of Kenya's political alliances for the foreseeable future, also the fact that under a constitutional review, GEMA parliamentary seats are likely to increase significantly to reflect the population, it is a cinch that whoever gets the backing of the GEMA vote is as good as President.
Uhuru is likely to be the pre-eminent GEMA politician most of Central Kenya will coalesce around in readiness for the Kibaki succession. Saitoti will not be a significant factor as he is not only older and is therefore detached from younger voters who are the majority, but is seen to represents the past we need to move away from.
It is unlikely GEMA will present a Presidential candidate, depending of course on the political haggling of the day. Those therefore dismissing Kalonzo have no idea how Kenyan politics works. If Kalonzo strikes a deal with himself for President,Uhuru as Prime Minister and a Muslim like Taib for Vice President, he is through, and a General Election could come as soon as the new constitution is in place, probably in 2010.
A Kalonzo/Uhuru/Taib alliance is therefore very likely in 2010, going by word on the ground.

Indeed. That we should get to heaven where all (wo)men are judged by the content of their character rather than their tribe. That we should finally get to that place where politics is strictly about issues and policies. But the human being is prone to herd mentality. Why else would people constantly stop black people in the streets of Europe asking them if they have any drugs to sell? Of course there are reasons for this like everything else. Self preservation. See in our personal relations we seek friendship with those whom we have the most in common. On a national political scale the common denominator seems to be tribe. But there are always advantages and disadvantages in everything. Suppose we had strong issue based politics and each time a Luhya emerges as the person with the best policies. This repeats itself 3 or 4 times and we have 4 Luhya presidents in succession. The Luhyas would then develop a reputation of making very good presidents. People would become complacent on the issues and would now just be looking for a Luhya to be president, creating a way for despots to get through.

re: Stephen Kalonzo Mu
written by James Macharia , March 05, 2008

I would hate to see great politicians like Raphael Tuju fall by the side. Although the guy wasn't able to make it into parliament, it's my hope that he'll live to fight another day. Honestly speaking, if the guy was to run for presidency today, he would most surely have my vote. I think he possesses some qualities which make his appeal span across tribal lines. I hope that the people of Rarieda will, five years from now, look back and see what a stupid mistake they made (of course, our hope is that their MP will actually continue the good work that Tuju started).

I agree, Tuju seems like the kind of moderate guy that would make a great Kenyan president some time. Maybe even in the upcoming elections. He however needs a constituency, probably an urban one in Nairobi where he won't depend on the whims and graces of Raila Amolo Odinga. Further he needs constituents who'll appreciate his work. I hear he did a very good job in Rarieda. (...)

(Edited. The president's last name is Kibaki. And if you wish to address issues of the Othaya constituency, which may well be of interest, make an own argument of it. Eds.

blow to democracy
written by wjunior , March 05, 2008

What it means to kenya is that the democracy we have been fighting for is in limbo. For the first time since 1992 parliament is not going to have an opposition or shadow cabinet. Who will occupy the watchdog positions of Public Accounts Committee of Public Investments Committee is not known. Who is going to be the whistle blower in this age when anyone is perceived (rightly or wrongly) to be against the popular tide even if right is instantly ethnically labeled and admonished. Unfortunately, even within the citizens, if you are not echoing PNU or ODM you are either a traitor or someone to be banished. It effectively has taken our democracy and freedoms way back in time. Be set for a monolithic government and parliament.

Style and decorum
written by mkosakabila , March 05, 2008

I thought you had advised against using the stupid nick names such as Kibaki etc for future reference?

(That is true. We usually edit, in the same sense as any decent newspaper does. We also try to edit typos, orthography etc. (e.g. like "an advice" - "to advise". Eds.)

Please enforce that and delete, erase, tear down etc Macharias last sentence above. It is not in good taste, anyway.

(We The Editors have resolved that it so pleases Us to enact such ameliorations as We see and deem it fit. See above.
As to crushing, deleting, biting, tearing, hammering, we may or may not use one or all such measures, such as the case be, and as to such purpose shall direct Our special attention to your own future contributions, taking them as suitable examples.
Signed: Us, The Editors.)

re: editor
written by Johnny B. Goode , March 05, 2008

one of the things you don't understand, Mr Kimani, is that the coalistion is not between ODM and the rest of the pasties bound together, but between OD and PNU. PNU has 47 MPs while ODM has 97. ODM-K isn't accounted for. That's why for purposes of the PM election, they are not useful. ODM will provide the PM. Now, again, if the grand coalition collapses by virtue of one party walking out or a vote of no confidence, we don't go back to the status quo, it automatically triggers a general election. Tell me which MP would want to go back for election? they aren't sure they'll be back. Moreover, this is Kibaki's last term, and so he'll be barred from contesting again. Moreover, he knows the rest of the country, but central and perhaps eastern may vote for him. He won't get a vote anywhere else. he'll lose again, just like he lost in December. He's not stupid. We won't risk his power for someone else in the Gema group.

It is PNU and affiliates as well as ODM and affiliates. ODM has a majority in parliament but not the absolute majority. They rely on Ngilus Narc and Cyrus Njirongos Kaddu to shore up those numbers. If that was not the interpretation, they'd not be sharing cabinet position on a 50 50 basis.

What you are saying in your last sentence is absolute rubbish. Kibaki won in Central, Eastern, Nairobi and North Eastern. The migratory nature of the Kikuyu means that they comprise a huge constituent in rift valley. Just that 250 000 were displaced mostly in and around Uasin Gishu should give you a clue. That Kibaki won with 800 000 + votes there should give you another. More over PNU has quite a number of seats in the Rift. The same goes for Nairobi. I mean I don't have to school you on this matters, look it up. And that Kibaki lost in December is based on pure conjecture and allegations that have little to no factual backing.

re: no, NOT Uhuru. Please.
written by manta ray , March 05, 2008

I don't know how much support you can marshal to stop Uhuru.

Ask one Raila Amolo Odinga on how to mobilize support. With Uhuru, I doubt one would even need to preach hate and or tribe to mobilize against him, or even in support of him. Empty debe.

In your use of the tribal arithmetic you forgot that the G, E and M in GEMA or even the Akamba will still also need to be mobilized in support of him, as would the constituent groupings of the G. He happens not to be Emilio. Big sigh.

Simply put, am just not a big fan of the Chania river nonsense nor of super privilege by inheritance nor of dynasty. Yet I could never be against the House of Mumbi.

So heres one more vote not for Uhuru.

I look forward to choosing from a pool of very exciting possibilities, and there's a bunch out there, Tuju included.

You seem to look at an Uhuru campaign as a contrast to that of the recent Kibaki effort. Raila is not the only good mobilizer in town. Kenyans forget so quickly.
Do you remember the highly effective and motivated campaign of one Kenneth Matiba in 1992? Did you know that he is Uhuru's Godfather? The people who worked in the Matiba campaign in 1992 are still very much around and most of them would avail their mobilization skills to Uhuru and his interests.
Now that Kenyans are beginning to discuss tribal alliances openly and to acknowledge that this a reality of Kenyan politics, one must be careful to separate Uhuru the Man from Uhuru the representative of GEMA interests.
First, It is highly doubtful that Uhuru would mount a Presidential campaign on his own or as a solo candidate. He would only do so as part of a tribal alliance, the newly acknowledged reality of our politics. To imagine therefore that you can separate E & M from the G is to be incredibly naive. It will simply not happen. To repeat, it is not about dynastic inheritance or super privilege. It is about GEMA interests. You can hate Uhuru as much as you like but it will not change the GEMA communities from coalescing around him.
Secondly, there is no other GEMA personage on the horizon with the name recognition and financial resources to mount a serious challenge to Uhuru's mantle as the pre-eminent GEMA leader. The only possibility was Saitoti, but like I said, he is not popular with the majority of the youth, the biggest voting block.
Whether you are a fan of the "Chania river nonsense" or not is irrelevant. You have to deal with the reality as it is. A lot of GEMA people are not happy that Raila is the PM and would probably have preferred Tuju, but Raila is who they have to accept and deal with as a representative of the ODM tribal alliance.
In the same way, if Uhuru is the rep of a possible Kalonzo/Uhuru/Taib alliance, then that's whom you will have to deal with, and accept as the leaders if they win a free and fair election.

Uhuru Kenyatta
written by Stephen Wanyama , March 05, 2008

If, as I suppose we have, resolved that KenyaImagine is a place for thinkers, for the Kenyan who is above petty ethnic calculation, then how can we at all tolerate the idea of Uhuru running for President?

Uhuru, like Raila is not only an empty head, he is also a man who is not squeamish about violence. His family is responsible for a great deal of the land problems in Kenya today, he is not squeamish about resorting to violence to sort out political problems. He has shown no courage, no ideas through-out his political history. His conduct as Leader of the Official Opposition could not have been more tragic.

Yes, we remember Uhuru and Matiba's mobilizing powers (could you have made a less persuasive case for Uhuru, Manta Ray?) Hatutaki Uhuru, let's have Martha, or best of all let's have Tuju. Really there is no better way of stamping Kenya loudly and clearly on this country than campaigning together for Tuju. We at once show the Luo that we have no beef with them, but also give the Kikuyu an opportunity to show that they are not averse to supporting a Luo president. In addition, we underline once and for all our never-ending intolerance of ODM's politics of hate and division.

...
written by Shiroh , March 05, 2008

Having watched Uhuru on Television Debate recently i hesitate to call him an empty debe. I however would like to give him another 10 years to learn. My preferred candidate would be Professor Saitoti. Though his name is on the mud for Goldenberg, i think he is a very sober man.

ngai!!!
written by Stephen Wanyama , March 05, 2008

I thought we were different from the ODM? Shock on me, there are people who propose Uhuru and Saitoti? So then the opposition to Raila was purely on the basis of tribe or what? Are we turning a new page? Are we really any different from the ODM? I am really very sad now. Those with the blood and sweat of the Kenyan people on their hands like Raila, Ruto, Musalia, Saitoti and Uhuru must never be supported in their yearning for public office, never.

re:
written by Isindu Mwangaza , March 05, 2008

Having watched Uhuru on Television Debate recently i hesitate to call him an empty debe. I however would like to give him another 10 years to learn. My preferred candidate would be Professor Saitoti. Though his name is on the mud for Goldenberg, i think he is a very sober man.

Recycled Junk? Why not Kiraitu? With the Truth and Reconciliation Commission on the way, Uhuru's family will feature prominently. I fail to see why PNU would set itself up for failure.

Frankly, Kiraitu speaks plain, like him or hate him, he is firm and dedicated to Kibaki albeit with prudence. Eitherway, I never understood PNU nor what they stand for, so my observation is really an outsiders point of view.

re: Uhuru Kenyatta
written by James Macharia , March 05, 2008

If, as I suppose we have, resolved that KenyaImagine is a place for thinkers, for the Kenyan who is above petty ethnic calculation, then how can we at all tolerate the idea of Uhuru running for President?

Uhuru, like Raila is not only an empty head, he is also a man who is not squeamish about violence. His family is responsible for a great deal of the land problems in Kenya today, he is not squeamish about resorting to violence to sort out political problems. He has shown no courage, no ideas through-out his political history. His conduct as Leader of the Official Opposition could not have been more tragic.

Yes, we remember Uhuru and Matiba's mobilizing powers (could you have made a less persuasive case for Uhuru, Manta Ray?) Hatutaki Uhuru, let's have Martha, or best of all let's have Tuju. Really there is no better way of stamping Kenya loudly and clearly on this country than campaigning together for Tuju. We at once show the Luo that we have no beef with them, but also give the Kikuyu an opportunity to show that they are not averse to supporting a Luo president. In addition, we underline once and for all our never-ending intolerance of ODM's politics of hate and division.

(James: we wish that you would use paragraphs in future.
They structure text and make it legible. Ed.)

Steven, you are so good at providing links to all tour arguments. Where are the links to Uhurus complicity in acts of violence and shedding of blood? Kenyattas family involvement in the land problems in Kenya. Should we purnish the son for the sins of the father? I suppose one could say why doesn't Uhuru just give it back? I s'ppose he could but then as has been espoused it's his families land not necessarily his and just giving it back would probably involve a battle royal. Then again we'll have a TJRC. Let the devil get his day in court. Politics at the end of the day is just like sports. And here is where the million dollar question. What came first, the chicken or the egg? See if I was a luo, Railas ideas would probably have made a lot of sense for me. Aside from the ethnic angle, the last elections was basically about one side which said that Kibaki was doing a good job and another side that said we can do 20 times better. Populist I know but that always works. It's what politicians do. The former German chancellor, Gerhard Schroeder one campaigned on the platform that he would reduce unemployment by half and come the next election, he should be judged on that. The next elections came around and guess what the figures had not moved that much but the guy still won anyway, because he was peddling something new and very popular. The opposition to the Iraq war. The Americans were understandably not amused. We don't exist in a vacuum, ethnic considerations are part and parcel of the trade. Uhuru by throwing his lot with Kibaki. At that point he automatically became the heir apparent. Being a place of thinkers does not mean we ignore the reality that has been part and parcel of our country since its inception in the lines that we are all Kenyans. That is just lying to ourselves. And it's not just a question of class or wealth, this is a reality across the board. Most harbor our prejudices, whether we took up a panga or not. Our country had the opportunity served on a silver platter to show that we are Kenyans but the boys in blue proved beyond a reasonable doubt that is a pipe dream. And I'll illustrate why this is so. Supposing we have 10 gvt. jobs to give and the best 10 best qualified persons to do the job are all Kalenjins. Won't the question still come, why is the govt. not representative? Why are they hiring only Kalenjins? If we applied the maxim that we are all Kenyans, would it matter if all the cabinet minister were all Kikuyu? Paul Kimani has, what I feel is a very good idea of a 2nd chamber of parliament based on ethnicity on this very thread. In my reckoning it would be even more representative as constituencies are also influenced by the geographical span. To illustrate that point consider the size of North Eastern Province and the number of people who live there. Eastern province has nearly the same expanse bu has 8 times the number of registered voters. Then consider the size of Nairobi.It has nearly a third of the number of registered voters in Eastern, more voters than North Eastern. Yet look at its geographical expanse. At the end of the day of the day, Ethnicity is a factor in whom to back. To those whom it doesn't matter, I salute you. But all facts point out that you are in the vast insignificant minority. If we plan to find solutions to the betterment of our country, we can't continue to ignore the fact that we are primarily a nation of 45 tribes. The Solutions arrived at this way will have much firmer ground to stand on than the ones based on Najivunia kuwa Mkenya. A mathematical equation that ignores some key factors we'll only arrive at the wrong answers.

re: Uhuru Kenyatta
written by manta ray , March 05, 2008

If, as I suppose we have, resolved that KenyaImagine is a place for thinkers, for the Kenyan who is above petty ethnic calculation, then how can we at all tolerate the idea of Uhuru running for President?

Uhuru, like Raila is not only an empty head, he is also a man who is not squeamish about violence. His family is responsible for a great deal of the land problems in Kenya today, he is not squeamish about resorting to violence to sort out political problems. He has shown no courage, no ideas through-out his political history. His conduct as Leader of the Official Opposition could not have been more tragic.

Yes, we remember Uhuru and Matiba's mobilizing powers (could you have made a less persuasive case for Uhuru, Manta Ray?) Hatutaki Uhuru, let's have Martha, or best of all let's have Tuju. Really there is no better way of stamping Kenya loudly and clearly on this country than campaigning together for Tuju. We at once show the Luo that we have no beef with them, but also give the Kikuyu an opportunity to show that they are not averse to supporting a Luo president. In addition, we underline once and for all our never-ending intolerance of ODM's politics of hate and division.

Stephen, i can understand where you are coming from. However, you cannot ignore the realities of Kenyan politics even if you wanted to. The best thing to do is to make the best of a bad situation, and it is a fact that if elections are held in two years time, Kenyans will still vote on tribal lines.

In that context, if the GEMA people see Uhuru as the man who can best unify their vote, they will prefer him to anybody else, since there is no one on the horizon(yet) with the capacity to do so as of now.
Like I said earlier, any Kikuyu standing for President will get nowhere, and that is why i am telling you that word on the ground is that Kalonzo will be the Presidential candidate the GEMA vote will back in an alliance. That is a fact. This is also a demonstration that GEMA will this time be voting outside their ethnic affiliation, not in a foolishly naive manner hoping to prove their democratic credentials, but because of political realities.

When you suggest that they back a Luo, you must show how that serves their collective interests, just as the Latinos backed Clinton en masse in Texas as they don't see how Obama serves their interests. There is no difference with the GEMA calculations.
Kenyaimagine is a place not just for thinkers, but a place where we can also share information.

re: Saitoti
written by Daniel.Waweru , March 05, 2008

Having watched Uhuru on Television Debate recently i hesitate to call him an empty debe. I however would like to give him another 10 years to learn. My preferred candidate would be Professor Saitoti. Though his name is on the mud for Goldenberg, i think he is a very sober man.

Saitoti isn't just adversely mentioned in the Goldenberg report, the commissioners found that he, along with several others, was responsible for what happened. (see p 318-9 of the report)

Tuju for prez
written by Daniel.Waweru , March 05, 2008

StevO,

I second your nomination of Tuju (Ms Karua is too divisive a figure). He was effective both as a constituency MP and Foreign Minister, he actually knows something about running a successful (non-patronage) business, and his election would accomplish the generational change everyone wants. 'Tuju in '12' is the slogan.

...
written by Kenyan , March 05, 2008

Okay - first lies about Karua. Now this story in the Nation....someone's really trying to do a smear campaign against the PNU folks. I guess that old saying is true, that the squeaky wheel gets the oil. The ODM folks, primarily Raila, have been very aggresive with marketing themselves in Kenya and overseas. No wonder they are looked at favorably while PNU/ Kibaki is not.

It's a shame for the BBC, a media powerhouse as they are, to report something like this based on anonymous sources. I guess gutter-news is the way to go when there's nothing else to report?

***************************************
Mutua dismisses report linking State to election chaos

Story by FRED MUKINDA
Publication Date: 3/6/2008
The Government has dismissed a British Broadcasting Corporation report claiming that post-election violence in parts of the Rift Valley Province was State-sanctioned.

Government spokesman Alfred Mutua termed the report

...
written by aeichener , March 05, 2008

Karen Allen from the BBC is a rather good journalist; she knows more about Kenya and Kenyan politics, and has a better judgement, than many Kenyan journalists. However, here she really seems to have allowed herself to be instrumentalised. A pity.

Alexander

...
written by benadede , March 06, 2008

If there is a man who has taken a lot of Kenyans for a ride it is Raphael Tuju. I pity those who imagine he is the kind of leader Kenya needs.

As for his "development" record, all I can say is that many MPs did as much and some even better. Tuju was only more media savvy than most.

re:ben
written by Daniel.Waweru , March 06, 2008

Ben,

Fafanua. I'm genuinely interested in the evidence for the case against Bw. tuju.

...
written by benadede , March 06, 2008

Look at his record as a minister and how many times he flouted the rule of law.
Secondly, convince me that the man he recommended to be Kenya's ambassador to the USA is the best qualified person for that job. Even if you want to score a point against your opponent, I think it is best to take into account the interests of the country.

re: re: Uhuru Kenyatta
written by Johnny B. Goode , March 06, 2008

Stephen, i can understand where you are coming from. However, you cannot ignore the realities of Kenyan politics even if you wanted to. The best thing to do is to make the best of a bad situation, and it is a fact that if elections are held in two years time, Kenyans will still vote on tribal lines.

In that context, if the GEMA people see Uhuru as the man who can best unify their vote, they will prefer him to anybody else, since there is no one on the horizon(yet) with the capacity to do so as of now.
Like I said earlier, any Kikuyu standing for President will get nowhere, and that is why i am telling you that word on the ground is that Kalonzo will be the Presidential candidate the GEMA vote will back in an alliance. That is a fact. This is also a demonstration that GEMA will this time be voting outside their ethnic affiliation, not in a foolishly naive manner hoping to prove their democratic credentials, but because of political realities.

When you suggest that they back a Luo, you must show how that serves their collective interests, just as the Latinos backed Clinton en masse in Texas as they don't see how Obama serves their interests. There is no difference with the GEMA calculations.
Kenyaimagine is a place not just for thinkers, but a place where we can also share information.

I don't see the problem with that. Tuju stuck by Kibakis side when it was needed. Granted he played a role very similar to that of Joe Nyaga in ODM, in that he didn't win the MP slot on his home turf and he didn't win Kibaki any votes. Kibaki won just as many votes in other Luo Nyanza constituencies as he won in Rarieda.

Pending Benadede hard proof of this man's unworthiness to run for the highest office, I think he makes for an excellent candidate. Tuju, however only has a shot if he has the full backing of PNU and affiliates and ODM-K. If the race is only between him and Raila, then he'll make it. I don't see ODM-K playing ball. Kalonzo will be like 60 and I don't see him passing up the chance to run next time around. In a 3 way race between Raila, Tuju and Kalonzo, Raila will win hands down because the GEMA vote will be split. That they are some GEMA folks who don't want to see a Luo presidency, is not a myth but a fact. The Luhya side of the PNU equation might also feel that their time has come and they at least bring votes on the table, unlike Tuju, who as of right now brings nothing. Further complicating matters is his absence in parliament and by extension exclusion from the Cabinet. That takes him off the national limelight for the next 5 years. Already we haven't seen much of him in the last couple of days.

In my mind though the man with the best shot is Kalonzo. He has his Kamba constituency and he'll be an easy sell to the GEMA crowd. On top of that he has already run a campaign, thus he has some national recognition. On top of that I don't see him stepping down for anyone, come 2012.

Steven, this whole tribal equation thing came about because someone suggested that GEMA will be ou in the cold for a long time. The bare hard facts had to be laid on the table. If that makes me less of a thinker because I see the reality on the ground based on past elections, then so be it.

I think someone who ignores the reality on the ground is some what of an illusionist. and will end up playing the role in Kenyan politics that liberal democrats play in UK politics. Sure you'll find like minded folks but you won't have enough votes to really move anything in the end.

To navigate in Kenyan politics the political party has to be a tribal alliance. If you formed the best party with the most brilliant policies, with the youngest blood but only made up of GEMA for example, you'd only end up like Kalonzo or Nyachae. The best way to do it, was how ODM did it with a created impression of first among equals. Just look at the ODM pentagon campaign posters. People want to feel that they have their man or woman right in the thick of things. In the Kenyan context, this means their tribes mate.

...
written by manta ray , March 06, 2008

Well said, Johnny. However, bear in mind that if it was up to Kenyaimagine posters and like minded informed Kenyans, Tuju would have a very good shot. Unfortunately, the rest of Kenya does not think that way, including the current elite, and it will be that way for a long,long time to come, and for as long as we continue to accept mediocrity from our so-called leaders.
I had hoped it happens differently, but it won't. That is the reality and we have to play the hand we are given.

mawatu
written by Stephen Wanyama , March 06, 2008

No, not for a moment should you suppose that I am opposed to a Kalonzo presidency. He was in many ways the best candidate out there, maybe the best Kenya has ever had all things considered. I am especially adamant that a presidential candidate needs to be principled and equipped to stand up to blackmail and bullying more than that he has ideas of his own. A moral system is perhaps paramount, and although I am much disturbed by Christianity and all religion having a place in our politics, I think we can all agree that it is a wondrous thing that while Raila, Moi, Kibaki, Kenyatta, Nyachae, Matiba and so on have made their billions while in public office, Kalonzo has not any remarkable wealth in spite of years and years in government service.

I agree that it would be very tricky arguing a Tuju candidacy, but I think our side must elevate Tuju so as to kill the anti-Luo thinking. Kibaki has been insisting in the last few weeks that Tuju be one of the PNU coalition's nominated MPs, remember the name is Party of National Unity!!

Next, I am not sure it is true that the GEMA will not vote a Luo. Raila is not unpopular because he is a Luo but because he is threatening. There are Luos on this website who loathe Raila, who are threatened by his history of stones, blood and threats! You really think GEMA folk would vote for a man who promised them tears if he was made President? You think they would vote in numbers for a candidate who promoted Majimbo a policy whose very pronouncement has always meant death for GEMA folk in the thousands? A candidate who has made constant snide remarks, remember the comments on the stock market, on the property markets, exhortations against paying rent? I mean the ODM is so anti-Kikuyu even those of us who are not Kikuyu are terribly alarmed by it, how would Kikuyus cheer the same party?

re: mawatu
written by aeichener , March 06, 2008

There are Luos on this website who loathe Raila, who are threatened by his history of stones, blood and threats!

Few.

Far fewer than Agikuyu who dislike Kibaki and want him to go.

Why is that so ?

Alexander

...
written by Stephen Wanyama , March 06, 2008

Johnny, that was a very ODM-like argument. What is dirty about not giving Maanzo a place in parliament? I would have thought this was immediately obvious, but it seems it has to be explained.

The PNU coalition is approaching the nominations and the business of government as a single group. The nominations were therefore given as a coalition and not as single parties.

The party has to reach out to those Kenyan communities that are under-represented in the PNU coalition, like Luos and Coastals. This is why for example the President insisted that Tuju be on the list and it is why Kalonzo gave up those positions for wider consideration. Maanzo is a young man who can be rewarded for his loyalty in other ways, but the Parliamentary PNU Coalition needs to be representative of Kenya.

P.S. Given the spectre of an ODM victory, I think the GEMA vote, even the Kisii vote could be motivated by the impending reality and the recent history of violence. In this election for example, most GEMA folk were not really voting to endorse Kibaki but out of terror for an ODM, Majimbo, ethnic cleansing, no-rent-paying, Kikuyu-cutting-down government.

re: mawatu
written by Johnny B. Goode , March 06, 2008

No, not for a moment should you suppose that I am opposed to a Kalonzo presidency.

In a race where GEMA had no choice but Raila and Tuju then GEMA would probably vote for Tuju to the last man. The only thing you'd have to watch out for is the voter turnout. It's questionable that in such a race that GEMA would be as motivated as they were this time around. The Luhya had the same problem this time around. Turnout in western was especially low this time around at 58%. 12% below the average voter turnout.
If you throw Kalonzo into the mix, I can gurantee you that the GEMA vote will be split enough for Raila to pass Kati kati yao.

Also bear in mind that the Luhya faction within PNU might rightly say that their time has come. They bring 300 000 votes with them while Tuju comes empty handed.

Kalonzo was Mr. Clean until he played Maanzo and Dr. Julia Ojiambo dirty. I mean he promised Maanzo in front of running TV cameras a nomination spot. It's understandable though that with a whole colony of Ukambani MPs, he sought to extend his base with the muslim constituency and Julia turned out to be mere decoration. Th Lady only gathered 400 votes in her home turf.

It is not necessary to quote whole sections of a previous comment. Thank you. Eds.

re: re: mawatu
written by benadede , March 06, 2008

There are Luos on this website who loathe Raila, who are threatened by his history of stones, blood and threats!

Few.

Far fewer than Agikuyu who dislike Kibaki and want him to go.

Why is that so ?

Alexander

That is an interesting questiion Alex. I do not have answer but I would like to give some thoughts on the Luo and Raila.

Many people have wondered why the Luos fanatically seem to back Raila. I may not have the answer but I think there has been really poor strategy in dealing whith this problem.

Don't make Raila bashing your focus of campaign. It will not win you votes from this group who like it or not see this man as one who embodies their aspirations. An attack on Odinga is construed to be an attack on the Luo (the same can be said of Kibaki or Kalonzo and other tribal chieftains over time like Ntimama, Nyachae e.t.c)

You do not reach out to the Luo by threatening them with the prospect of "development" marginalization if they do not back the government. They are immune to these threats, being almost comfortable with being the face of Kenya's opposition. They are extremely proud of whatever achievements they have made in the face of the threat of siasa mbaya, maisha mbaya. They point out that these achievements have been made despite lack of political patronage and associated state sanctioned corruption. Moreover, they look at their neighbors in Western province who have had a healthy presence in the cabinet since 1992 and yet the so called maisha mzuri does not trickle down to the villages nor translate into the much heralded development.

Reach out to them. Visit them, get to know them and do not make the visit an arena to bash their leaders but one in which you make a genuine attempt to know them. Stay away and they think, after all Kenyatta did not set foot in Nyanza from 1969 to his death but the Luo did not die or disappear.

Raila does not mark out the ballot paper of every Luo voter, so try to find out why the Luo vote the way they do. Find out why Orengo, Nyong'o, Dalamas Otieno and others have decided to bury their differences with Raila to get into parliament and how this can be reversed.

Ask yourself whether if Raila leaves the political scene the Luo vote will be up for grabs or it will unite behind a new figure.

in re Adede v Tuju
written by Daniel.Waweru , March 06, 2008

bena,

Look at his record as a minister and how many times he flouted the rule of law.

Secondly, convince me that the man he recommended to be Kenya's ambassador to the USA is the best qualified person for that job. Even if you want to score a point against your opponent, I think it is best to take into account the interests of the country.

The only time I can think of that Tuju flouted the law was when he had the presenter on Ramogi FM arrested. But since that presenter had just been giving rioters directions to his mother's home, I'm willing to forgive that.

Rateng' Ogego is qualified (brief list of relevant qualifications and experience here). I can't judge that he was the best qualified candidate, because I don't know who else was in the running.

Adede
written by John Victor Ogot , March 06, 2008

No Adede, there is a big difference. Even behond closed doors the Luo people almost never criticise Raila Odinga, not in spite of the fact that his leadership has been a long abdication of responsibility. We are basically chasing after the dreams of one man and wrecking the lives of many in the process.

It has been demonstrated severally on this website, that the marginalisation of Luo Nyanza is a myth, at least in the present but likely in the past as well. The Kibaki government has done a lot of very hard work in Nyanza province, and living standards have without a doubt been raised.

I am interested, like everyone else in the knowledge of the facts on Tuju. I am sure he is not a genius,or a great orator or even a particularly brave man, but in a country where leadership most often fails to deliver, Tuju is head and shoulders above any other Luo politician. His ability to deliver even in the face of great opposition, is evidence sufficient of his courage and spirit.

By the way do you not think you contradict yourself when you connect a lack of development to political ostracisms, and then go on to show that in spite of its allegiance to Moi and KANU, Western Province suffered in the same way? Could it be that our freedom and prosperity lie in shedding our culture of victimhood, and instead pursuing home-grown solutions to poverty. Raila thrives on the fact that the Luo believe the state represents prosperity.

Alexander,
Raila has won the Luo over by violence and intimidation. Every single alternative has been crushed by violence, I would like to hear of a single one who has not. Nothing else, many of those following him know that he is a mediocre leader, many of them have greater education, knowledge and achievements than Raila does, but none of them has quite the taste for violence. Note that even his late and most esteemed and venerable father did not have this fanatical a following.

The GEMA Vote
written by James Watt , March 06, 2008

In this election for example, most GEMA folk were not really voting to endorse Kibaki but out of terror for an ODM, Majimbo, ethnic cleansing, no-rent-paying, Kikuyu-cutting-down government.

I really can't endorse that statement Stephen.GEMA is just as tribal as any other Kenyan grouping. A sturdy of past multi-party elections should be more than enough proof of this. In 1992 we voted for Matiba and Kibaki, in 1997 we voted for Kibaki in 2002 we split the vote between Kibaki and Uhuru and in 2007 we voted for Kibaki. Don't forget that the achievements of Kibaki are seen through different light if you are GEMA. and his failings are easier to forgive.

GEMA have always backed their own but this time we had reasons enough to want the man to continue. It was not out of protest but the fact that we felt that Kibaki had done an excellent job.

One can argue that others, like in 2002 including the tribes that form the backbone of the ODM voted GEMA in 2002. In all fairness though we have never been put in a position where one of our own wasn't running. 2012, should be the year when this happens. Watch the turnout.

One can argue though that the ODM factor as well as steadman polls fuelled a much higher turnout than might have been the case. And that high turnout put Kibaki back in the statehouse.

mea culpa
written by Stephen Wanyama , March 06, 2008

I admit I was perhaps unclear, I was speaking of the massive turnout more than the fact that the votes all went to Kibaki. Someone above had suggested that the turnout would be low if no candidate was Kikuyu. My argument was that turnout was not high because a candidate was Kikuyu but because there was a reason to fear the ODM government and its anti-GEMA spirit.

Without a doubt the GEMA are just as tribalistic as any other Kenyans. Please note all the people alleging that Kenyatta was a hero, and that Kenya's problems begun with Moi!

Still, I think it was unhelpful that you use the previous elections as evidence of the GEMA folks resistance to voting for people from other communities. Like I have said here severally, I do not know how anyone with a brain and a heart could ever have voted ODM. Many of us did not vote Kibaki because we liked him, but simply to keep the brown-shirts out of State House. Look, ODM had been preaching hell for Kikuyu folk for 3 years, only a serious absence of conscience would result in an ODM vote! Not one week is past since Nyong'o, Raila and Balala were preaching hell for close to 30% of all Kenyans. I cannot fault a GEMA person for voting Kibaki, it is what every Kenyan with a conscience did. Please read Annette Keino's Erase and Rewind and like I said before, there is a real case against Kibaki.

...
written by benadede , March 06, 2008

I am hard pressed and hesitant to put hard evidence against Tuju. Let us put it this way, I worked for five years in Tuju's and neighboring constituencies and I did not see anything spectacularly different that he did as compared to other MPs apart from the Mobile clinic (which was not operational always) and the water project (I am not sure if this was completed). There are a few other things he was able to do because he was a minister and was being showcased as development conscious the same way Moi used to do with JJ Kamotho.

Anyway, overall I think the media has over-hyped his achievements. I challenge you all to show me his extra-ordinary achievements that make him presidential material.

I respect him for one thing though and that is because he decided not to tie his destiny to Raila.

Also, I feel at times that we whine too much and do too little to change the situation in Kenya. Arguments that even if Kibaki/PNU are not the best thing to happen to Kenya, Raila/ODM are 100 times worse are weak to me. When shall we step up and stop Jakoyo Midiwo or Kalembe Ndile from getting influential positions in our nation's political destiny. We have to participate actively if we want to make a change. We have to take the risk otherwise like myself we remain faceless cowards of the political cyber realm.

...
written by Stephen Wanyama , March 06, 2008

Adede, Kamotho was acknowledged by all to be a very development conscious minister. I do not see why we have to use words like used and such. No one ever claimed that other Central Kenyan MPs were anti-maendeleo and full of kelele, which is what most Kenyans even pro-ODM ones acknowledge is the problem with Nyanza MPs? Why are you picking on Kalembe Ndile? By all accounts he delivered to his constituents. I ask again, what is the difference at least in terms of intelligence between Raila, Kalembe, Uhuru and the chap that ran in Lang'ata against Raila? Seriously, what sort of people would like for a president a man whose greatest talent is recounting football matches and making silly, poorly thought-out quotes from tyrannical and dead white-men?

I do not think Kibaki and the PNU are 100 times better than Raila and the ODM. I think they are infinitely better for Kenya. I do not see how we can even tolerate for governorship a political party whose greatest selling point is preaching hatred against the Kikuyu. IF we could only see the consequences for the future of Kenyan politics, we would never have given the ODM a moment's consideration. Consequences, consequences Adede, Raila and the ODM were preaching hell and the destruction of Kenya. We have never ever in our history been confronted with such naked and dangerous hatred.

...
written by benadede , March 06, 2008

Bwana Wanyama,
I picked on Kalembe and Jakoyo because many in Kenya think these guys are fools. I support you, that there is little difference between not only Kalembe and the politicians you mentioned but most politicians in Kenya. If anything, I have always been of the opinion that Kalembe must be brighter than most politicians we had in parliament given the limitations he has/had.

I am a bit worried about how consumed you are getting about the ODM brigade. I totally disagree that PNU is infinitely better. I am sure you are aware that abetting crime is in itself criminal. For me PNU and its principals in conjunction with Wako, the police and the judiciary abetted whatever crimes you accuse ODM of. Kwangu hakuna mwenye dhambi ndogo hapa.

...
written by benadede , March 06, 2008

Then there is this thing about being development conscious. If I do not have tons of money but have tons of ideas, am I not worthy being elected to parliament?

By the way, I am not one of those who consider Kamotho to have been development conscious. In my eyes, he remains part of the face of dictatorship and kleptocracy that Kenya had become when I was growing up. Few from that era will ever redeem themselves in my eyes including all the ones who unlike Maalim Mohammed(former Dujis MP) refuse to leve the Kenyan political scene quietly.............then again, as I pointed out before, few of us are willing to stand up and be counted.

janam
written by Stephen Wanyama , March 06, 2008

Well, the thing is, none of these other politicians have preached that a certain ethnicity was the enemy of all Kenya. That is an infinitely worse thing than corruption, or any other crime. Adede, you seem not to grasp the importance of this. We still do not know what the consequences of that hate-campaign have been. Adede, Kikuyu folk up and down this country were bullied and warned before the election and then attacked on the basis of the campaign that said Kikuyu were the problem with Kenya.

You must have serious moral deficiencies if you do not see that as the worst crime possible.

Ja Tok Kodera
written by Cindy , March 06, 2008

What Benadede is saying is that your lines are abit too tired. With all intent and purposes, I have no intention of sanctifying either sides. You are beginning to sound like Al Sharpton who uses every opportunity to make the white man feel guilty over slavery. Quit the blame culture and preach solutions for once!

...
written by benadede , March 06, 2008

I am only looking at the bigger picture on why we ended up where we did. I seriously argued with people whom I know who supported ODM, in the immediate aftermath of the ECK announcement that Kibaki had won, that it was best for Raila to concede.

I have friends who have had to give up their jobs in Kisumu because they were from Mt. Kenya region. One had to flee because she was light skinned and yet she comes from Mt.Elgon. Another who is a Kamba and married a Luo girl had to seek refuge in the office for almost one month. I know two kikuyu families who had lived in Kisumu since the 70s whose houses were totally destroyed and forced to move out of town. This is Kisumu where killing was not even part of the idea initially so I can only imagine what happened in Rift Valley.

I am under no illusions as to the deep wounds inflicted on the nation and how long it may take to heal. However, I unlike you refuse to lay 100% blame on one side. Call that a moral deficiency if you wish but I think it would be more morally deficient to cleanse the smaller devil on the pretext that it is for the purpose of killing the bigger devil.

...
written by Stephen Wanyama , March 07, 2008

I guess you will never see my point. I am talking about violence, or the post-election scenario, I am not talking about who had to migrate and who had to move.

I am talking about the consequences of teaching people that their problems were caused by the Kikuyu, the idea that it would all be well if we vanquished the Kikuyu, the idea that the government was working only for Kikuyu people. These ideas are so poisonous and so destructive, that their consequences will stay with us long after the election violence has. I suppose your ethnicities are getting in the way of facts, but yes, the greatest sin of all is to teach poor, stupid people that their neighbours are their existential enemies. Do you remember Raila saying that Kibaki had a pact with Uhuru and that the Kikuyu would if not beaten this time rule forever? You still do not seem to appreciate the nature of the passions unleashed!

Cindy, say something useful once in a while. I do not believe in White Guilt. I am against attacking specific groups, but without a doubt, people like Raila, Ruto, Balala and Nyong'o should be banned from politics for the rest of their lives.

Say what you want but there can be no excuses for preaching hatred the way the ODM did, there is simply no greater sin.

bena, StevO
written by Daniel.Waweru , March 07, 2008

bena,

I'm with you on Kamotho's development record. I hear he offered to pay school fees and bursaries and whatnot for poor kids in Central (and I don't doubt that many took him up on the offer). And he seems to have been the kind of politician who liked to be seen to do something, whether it was useful or not. But even if he brought improvements, he was definitely not the kind of person who deserved to lead. His vision was limited to keeping himself in power. He was also the most incompetent Secretary-General KANU ever had, not least because he managed to complete the destruction of KANU's support in Central, and because his management of the first multi-party campaign was utterly disastrous. (That the party whose first SG was Mboya could end up with JJ in that position is a measure of how far the mighty had fallen). Like Raila, he too was not averse to violence when things went badly for him.

StevO

You're correct that ODM preached hate. But no balanced assessment will ignore the ethnic mobilization on the government side either. See, for example, KHRC's Violating the Vote. The report also shows (assuming there was a fair sample) that the epicentre of incitement to ethnic hatred was RVP; it accounts for over a third of all recorded instances in the pre-election period. You'll remember that Dercon et alia showed that, while ODM were likelier to threaten people with violence, PNU weren't far behind. ODM certainly led in inciting and inducing hate, but PNU also played that game.

Waweru
written by Stephen Wanyama , March 07, 2008

I submit that it matters not why an MP, whether Tuju or Kamotho delivers to his constituents, the fact that he delivers is itself good enough. Please let's not let our personal beefs get in the way of good facts.

This is like those claims that the Church was bad, as it only allowed people to attend schools or hospitals if they converted. Imagine a Kenya where all MPs delivered in this way, marvellous!

I am not sure that there are any Kenyans worse than Tom Mboya. Like has been said before Tom Mboya is almost exclusively responsible for the tyranny of the Kenyan presidency. He cared for nothing but the fact that the office would one day be his. Kamotho did a sterling job as KANU secretary general, caricatures aside, taking bullets and heat for the party and continuing to represent it in an area where it was not at all popular.

Now as regards those two reports. First KHRC do not even believe there was ethnic cleansing, so there is little hope that I would believe a report of theirs. They evidently know what team they are batting for.

Waweru, I find it really tedious that you should try to equate these crimes. While deplorable and nasty the entirety of the hate-speech from the other parties pales in contrast with the message of intolerance and blame-gaming on the GEMA by the ODM. I really fail to see how anyone can even think that there are equivalents to that. This is the most extreme ethnic-baiting on a public, broadcast stage in our history. It is right up there with the Rwandese examples and the Jew-baiting before the Holocaust.

As despicable and dangerous as they may be, name-calling and insults are nowhere near as noxious as the prejudice taught in the 41-1 and similar strategies. I just pray that the real consequences of that do not return in our children's lifetimes, but can you not see the parallels with anti-semitism? I am not talking about violence either, perhaps I am not articulate enough. The consequences of teaching a people that all their problems were the result of the greed and selfishness of some section of population, that loans, jobs, government resources were all sucked away from the one end and taken to the other. This message was presented so powerfully and silently, that it even made it into newspapers and the international media, guilting an entire community of people and justifying the rage and the hatred in another. That has no parallels in Kenyan history and neither is it the sort of thing that quickly goes away.

This is not a slur that is restricted to the elections, or to politics, it is a charge that explains a prosperous existence as the triumph over the enemy Kikuyu any which way. You perhaps may insist that you do not know the difference, on the ground, the people certainly did. Threats of violence in Nyanza, Western and Rift Valley Provinces, refusal to pay rents, expulsion notices, the extraction of children from school for training as raiders, the societal organisation show just how different this was than any other hate-speech. I insist it has no equivalents.

Tuju
written by James Macharia , March 07, 2008

Of Messr. Raphael Tuju and development.
LOL at Tuju primary school.
link one
link two

re: Tuju
written by a guest , March 07, 2008

Of Messr. Raphael Tuju and development.
LOL at Tuju primary school.
link one
link two

No. Of Projects Completed 41
No. Of Projects On going 72
No. Of Projects Stalled 13

Kibaki\'s Othaya CDF
written by Wuod Aketch , March 07, 2008

Look at the CDF status and amounts spent in othaya - It is just mind boggling compared to Rarieda.

Bonyeza hapa http://www.cdf.go.ke/projects/...6_2007.htm

No. of Projects Completed

talking rubbish
written by Daniel.Waweru , March 07, 2008

wuod,

Look at the CDF status and amounts spent in othaya - It is just mind boggling compared to Rarieda.

The CDF allocations schedule 2003-2008 is here. Othaya has 51, 788 registered voters, and an allocation of KES 135, 394, 455 for the period 2003-08; Rarieda has 49, 671 registered voters, and an allocation of KES 168, 711, 250 for the same period. That is KES 33M more than Othaya for the same period. The President's constituency, despite its larger population, got less than Rarieda. By my rough count, CDF allocation in Rarieda is KES 3396 per registered voter, and it is KES 2516 per registered voter in Othaya. Last example: Othaya spent KES 39.4M in 2006-7; Rarieda spent KES 42.4M. Note also that the average project in Tuju's constituency over the period 2005-08 appears to have cost significantly more than that in Othaya.

It is difficult to see what, other than paranoia or propaganda, might have led you to believe the nonsense you posted above.

...
written by Johnny B. Goode , March 07, 2008

LOL. Looks like Bwana Tuju is not such a prudent manager. He was allocated 42 mill and he blew out 72 in 2007. Baba Jimmy despite having a 1001 projects seems to have kept a tight leash.

Maanzo
written by Johnny B. Goode , March 07, 2008

Johnny, that was a very ODM-like argument. What is dirty about not giving Maanzo a place in parliament? I would have thought this was immediately obvious, but it seems it has to be explained.

Wanyama, you surprise me. Kalonzo was caught on camera telling Maanzo, more over after having asked the guy to stand down in the parliamentary race, that he'd be top of the list when it comes to getting the nomination slots. I saw the interview myself. Of course the nominations that were made make much more sense, as the man wants to expand the his partys base, but it doesn't look good to a neutral observer.

re: talking rubbish
written by Wuod Aketch , March 07, 2008

wuod,

Look at the CDF status and amounts spent in othaya - It is just mind boggling compared to Rarieda.

The CDF allocations schedule 2003-2008 is here. Othaya has 51, 788 registered voters, and an allocation of KES 135, 394, 455 for the period 2003-08; Rarieda has 49, 671 registered voters, and an allocation of KES 168, 711, 250 for the same period. That is KES 33M more than Othaya for the same period. The President's constituency, despite its larger population, got less than Rarieda. By my rough count, CDF allocation in Rarieda is KES 3396 per registered voter, and it is KES 2516 per registered voter in Othaya. Last example: Othaya spent KES 39.4M in 2006-7; Rarieda spent KES 42.4M. Note also that the average project in Tuju's constituency over the period 2005-08 appears to have cost significantly more than that in Othaya.

It is difficult to see what, other than paranoia or propaganda, might have led you to believe the nonsense you posted above.

Do not look for malice where there is none.
I was sure I was going to get such reaction to my post. Now that you have tried to explain to us that Othaya should have got more CDF funding, how come Rarieda got more than Othaya?
There was something wrong in the 2003/2004 attribution

Othaya had got 60 million while Rarieda got 6 million. That is Othaya got 10 times plus. What happened then and later
needs an explanation.

re: talking rubbish
written by Wuod Aketch , March 07, 2008

wuod,

Look at the CDF status and amounts spent in othaya - It is just mind boggling compared to Rarieda.

The CDF allocations schedule 2003-2008 is here. Othaya has 51, 788 registered voters, and an allocation of KES 135, 394, 455 for the period 2003-08; Rarieda has 49, 671 registered voters, and an allocation of KES 168, 711, 250 for the same period. That is KES 33M more than Othaya for the same period. The President's constituency, despite its larger population, got less than Rarieda. By my rough count, CDF allocation in Rarieda is KES 3396 per registered voter, and it is KES 2516 per registered voter in Othaya. Last example: Othaya spent KES 39.4M in 2006-7; Rarieda spent KES 42.4M. Note also that the average project in Tuju's constituency over the period 2005-08 appears to have cost significantly more than that in Othaya.

It is difficult to see what, other than paranoia or propaganda, might have led you to believe the nonsense you posted above.

Daniel,
Take the figures from the tables at those links that I gave above and get the totals correct:

For the periods :
2003/04, 2004/05,2005/06, 2006/07

Othaya figures
60,000,000.00 + 21,977,543.00 + 28,423,277 + 39,375,221
=149,776,041

Rarieda figures
5,240,000.00 + 23,257,640.00+ 38,351,897.00 + 42,385,011.65
== 109,234,548

Othaya wins.

re: re: talking rubbish
written by Ndorobo , March 07, 2008

Othaya had got 60 million while Rarieda got 6 million. That is Othaya got 10 times plus. What happened then and later
needs an explanation.

This is an outright lie. Wuod take a look at the data again and post a correction. Each constituency got Kshs. 6 Million in 2003/2004

...
written by Aliosema , March 07, 2008

Raila does not mark out the ballot paper of every Luo voter, so try to find out why the Luo vote the way they do. Find out why Orengo, Nyong'o, Dalamas Otieno and others have decided to bury their differences with Raila to get into parliament and how this can be reversed.

I hear from my Luo friends that it has something to do with a culture (or dare I say cult) of hero worship. You may want to explain this to me it is a concept alient to many.

I say that Tuju should run for the Embakasi seat. Get out of the do-or-die cult zone and try to get a fair hearing. I like others on this page believe that Tuju makes for a better Luo candidate for Kenya's Presidency in 2012. He has shown that he is intelligent, sensible, has his own mind, speaks it, is principled and is first and foremost a KENYAN.

I would trust him to do right by me unlike Raila and his rabid pentagon (with six corners?) who have jointly and severally proved their hatred and disdain for 30% of Kenyans in their bloody quest for the throne.

re: re: re: re: re: re: talkin
written by a guest , March 07, 2008

Can we pardon Kibaki for saying that he won the erections and that it is the clerical errors like these that misled him and PNU?

I presume you meant elections. Pardon Kibaki for what. He won free and fair. In any case the other sides story is that the numbers were deliberately changed at KICC. There's a court case filed against the election, and I believe if it runs its course Kibaki will be vindicated.

talking rubbish - please stop
written by ndorobo , March 07, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Can we pardon Kibaki for saying that he won the erections and that it is the clerical errors like these that misled him and PNU?

Anoni - we had numbers to add up regarding the CDF money. Wuod was off screaming Othaya was favored before verifying the arithmetic.
What numbers have you added up that show Raila won? Can you share numbers and not innuendos?
Tutahesabu

re: re: re: re: talking rubbis
written by Johnny B. Goode , March 07, 2008

Here is the table where the figures came from: link

Obviously a clerical error. Those figures in that column do not add up to 60 mill. Not by a long long shot.

Manta, all fine and good as to how Maanzo should behave but that's beside the point. Musyoka has been caught with his pants down, so he has lost some of the so called moral high ground.

talking rubbish
written by ndorobo , March 07, 2008

Othaya had got 60 million while Rarieda got 6 million. That is Othaya got 10 times plus. What happened then and later
needs an explanation.

This is an outright lie. Wuod take a look at the data again and post a correction. Each constituency got Kshs. 6 Million in 2003/2004

Here is the table where the figures came from: link

ndugu yangu, hesabu bwana. please add up the numbers, exactly Kshs 6 Million!

re: re: re: talking rubbish
written by a guest , March 07, 2008

Othaya had got 60 million while Rarieda got 6 million. That is Othaya got 10 times plus. What happened then and later
needs an explanation.

This is an outright lie. Wuod take a look at the data again and post a correction. Each constituency got Kshs. 6 Million in 2003/2004

Here is the table where the figures came from: link

re: Maanzo
written by manta ray , March 07, 2008

Johnny, that was a very ODM-like argument. What is dirty about not giving Maanzo a place in parliament? I would have thought this was immediately obvious, but it seems it has to be explained.

Wanyama, you surprise me. Kalonzo was caught on camera telling Maanzo, more over after having asked the guy to stand down in the parliamentary race, that he'd be top of the list when it comes to getting the nomination slots. I saw the interview myself. Of course the nominations that were made make much more sense, as the man wants to expand the his party's base, but it doesn't look good to a neutral observer.

Maanzo is being naive. Doesn't he realize he is fighting a losing battle in true Kenyan political style where backstabbing is a major implement in the toolbox? He should understand that what matters most in Kenyan politics is not how principled or goody, goody you are, it is how loyal you are and how much you make your benefactor look good and how you massage his fragile ego, as Kalonzo has previously demonstrated.
If Maanzo wants to remain relevant, he should not be fighting Kalonzo now, but accepting the situation and maybe lobbying for a senior appointment. Sickening and selfish I know, but that is the current reality, and is something we have all been trying to change.
Unfortunately, the ODM's tribalists and bigots have brought forth policies that have set us back forty years and all that is now going to matter for the foreseeable future is what sort of tribal alliances are formed to win power, and especially for GEMA, to never feel under siege again. Principle has been effectively jettisoned and when it will ever matter again is anyone's guess.
Already, KANU has this afternoon demanded one of the Deputy PMs seats for Uhuru, and going by their parliamentary strength and the calculations of the Kibaki inner circle, they will probably get it. The Kibaki succession intrigues are about to begin in earnest. It looks like we are in for politics again from January to December until the next election.

Kibaki\'s Othaya CDF
written by Wuod Aketch , March 07, 2008

Look at the CDF status and amounts spent in othaya - It is just mind boggling compared to Rarieda.

Bonyeza hapa
No. of Projects Completed 170 No. of Projects Ongoing 156
No. of projects Stalled 0
No. of projects Not Started 0 5


Are Rarieda and Othaya in the same country?

Johnny, Manta
written by Stephen Wanyama , March 07, 2008

It really is not my place to defend Maanzo or Kalonzo but I think you are both quite wrong.

Johnny, it does not matter whether Kalonzo swore on his mother's grave to make Maanzo a nominated MP. I am asking both of you to realise that the PNU coalition are not giving out their nominations on party basis but rather as a whole. Kombo is from FORD-Kenya you see? How exactly did he end up with a slot? Those people nominated by the government side through ODM-K are not necessarily ODM-K nominees, they are there to shore up the government side in Parliament, you get?

I have not got the full list, but I believe ODM will be doing the same thing. The fact that they are now going into this as a coalition, with the possibility of breakdown the need for haggling for posts and for the new constitution among many other considerations put on both parties a burden different than if they were going into government alone. You get it?

There is no back-stabbing, or need to suck-up. It is just politics. When Raila joined with Moi in 1997 he was playing politics, looking into the future, it is the same thing Kalonzo is doing now, it is also why Kibaki ran in 1992, not everything is about today.

I am not sure Kalonzo has explained to Maanzo and Ojiambo, one would hope they would have the maturity to understand and lobby for different positions. These are demanding times, and they call for different than normal political measures. There is simply no question of morals, of sickening or of selfishness in this argument, unless we are speaking another language and not English.

It would be really sad if Uhuru became a Deputy Prime Minister. How can this country function with two fools Uhuru and Raila is such important positions?

About CDF. I would advise everyone to look into how CDF is distributed, I mean how the allocations are computed. There is no way that Othaya would get more than Rarieda. There's a poverty component attached, remember?

re:
written by benadede , March 07, 2008

I say that Tuju should run for the Embakasi seat

Hehehehe! Good idea. It would make for a good test of if Kenyans have learnt anything new from the two months.

Meanwhile, being the Tuju doubter that I am, I am happy people have started to look at his record a bit more seriously. Clarkson Karan's appointment to the East African parliament is another of his recommendations that was done purely for political payback at the expense of quality. People who know Karan know what I am talking about.

And do you remember him establishing a new "Luo party" known as the PPP not too long ago? What was that all about? Was it a national party? Why did it attract only has been Luo politicians?

re: re: re: re: re: talking ru
written by pndiangui , March 07, 2008

Musyoka has been caught with his pants down, so he has lost some of the so called moral high ground.

Which I have repeatedly said he should never claim to have on these pages, while people like Emmo think he does!

hello
written by emmo opoti , March 07, 2008

Strange to find my name in the debate. Now, Ndiangui, KenyaImagine exists for facts, not random ODM-like rumour and innuendo. Please feel free to provide the reasons for your animus against Kalonzo, so we can all join you in your antipathy towards him. Simply saying something does not make it so.

...
written by emmo opoti , March 08, 2008

I thought we were talking about morals. Make your case, I am not here to defend him, but quite frankly charges you have laid show that you do not understand politics and what the current political crisis demands of Kenyan politicians. They do not at all define immorality. Please look at Wanyama's posts above.

Dimensions of moralism
written by pndiangui , March 08, 2008

Yes unless we are being selective on the dimensions tht define moralism. Being undemocratic in ones party's way of hand-picking nominated MP's and councilors approach is part of being immoral. Isn't it ?

Kalonzo is rightfully accussed
written by pndiangui , March 08, 2008

Emmo

I have repeatedly said that Kalonzo is a hard-line non-democratic individual less of how he has wanted us to see him. All I am saying is that the grievances from the likes of Kiema Kilonzo , his interference with nominated councillors and the side-lining of Julia Ojiambo speaks volumes of the Mwingi North MP.

Gatanga constituency
written by pndiangui , March 08, 2008

All

May be we need to look at some of the best accountable CDF's.
I for example find Gatanga's Peter Kenneth accounting standing out Link Here
Ditto Bahari .
Its a shame that ODM-K couldnt bring back the Member for Bahari with his quality results in this constituency.

hello
written by emmo opoti , March 08, 2008

I have sent you a full reply by email. It is clear we will get nowhere with this debate. You do not seem to understand the reasons for having nominated MPs, or what the word democracy means at all. The practice is that nominated MPs are picked by the party head to address certain interests in parliament. There is nothing at all democratic about the entire nominations process, whichever way you look at it. Please again, read Wanyama's comment above, focus especially keenly on who replaced Ojiambo or on the fact that Kombo got to be nominated. We can make a separate argument (irrelevant here) about democracy and morals, but it does not follow at all that what is democratic is moral.

It seems to me that what Kalonzo is suffering in the ODM-K fold is the feeling that he should be delivering booty to the boys. Well, two things are clear here, the rules for distribution of booty (for Kibaki, Raila and Kalonzo) have changed. There are greater and different considerations this time than would have been in a normal post-election give-away. Are you suggesting, that there would be something democratic about nominating Julia Ojiambo? Would that not be the cowardly thing to do? I really think the ODM move to nominate true minorities a) Muslims, b)Coastals c) Women is to be applauded. Julia Ojiambo would have been nominated yes, but to whose benefit? Would that not even be a case of cronyism given her links to Kibaki and Kalonzo?

Playing by the rules
written by pndiangui , March 08, 2008

The fact that Maanzo wasn't listened to , the fact that Ajiambo wasn't listened to portrays a very bad picture of Musyoka. That of arrogancy that could possibly equal that of Kibaki demonstrated in 2003 during the trashing of the MOU. I mean is it asking too much for Kalonzo to ask the MP's to deliberate on the nomination of councillors in a give and take spirit. No , he is the party leader so he can bulldoze anyone as he wishes. This accusation has been made several times about Kalonzo-his dictatorial tendencies.


Infact policalwise, if ODM lets Ngilu wield the clout of deputy PM (highly unlikely), she will likely oveshadow Kalonzo. This sort of high-handedness , that attracts revolt from within his party ranks will work against any political ambitions of Musyoka. He cannot afford to continue getting a scold from his MP's and councillors, he'll basically become a King only in PNU's context -while the grassroots goes to Ngilu or Mwau.

english again
written by emmo opoti , March 08, 2008

Shifting goalposts, I see. Again, not dictatorial; but yes consultation is certainly called for. Kalonzo may be a bad leader, Kalonzo may not be very intelligent, etc. We can go on and on, but to try and make out like the issue of nominations showed him to be immoral is quite frankly a very weak attempt at finding an excuse for projecting personal animosities against the man. To iterate, these are difficult times and it is necessary to get as many people from as diverse backgrounds as possible into parliament. Positions and other goodies are not going to be shared out as they would be in a winner-takes-all system..

Are you suggesting that Kalonzo, the born-again Christian prefers to back-stab a tried and tested loyal Kamba ally and reward a couple of far away Coastal Muslims for nothing? Sacrifices have to be made, and on my part I cannot see anything but courage and wisdom in the decision.

Kalonzo
written by Daniel.Waweru , March 08, 2008

emmo,

I think Peter has a point. Kalonzo has failed to carry out a promise that he made to Maanzo. While that's not necessarily undemocratic, following previously-agreed rules is not sufficient, (and may not be necessary) for democracy, it certainly appears to be cheating. Insofar as Kalonzo attempts to cultivate a Mr. Clean image, that image is compromised by stunts like these. That others have engaged in similar stunts, or that he may even have had good reason to do so himself, is immaterial.

I give up
written by emmo opoti , March 08, 2008

Okay, he is an immoral politician, just like Kibaki and like Waweru argued yesterday, hakuna dhambi ndogo. This is pathetic. Are you even reading what is posted above?

that he may even have had good reason to do so himself, is immaterial.

Come now, this is nonsense. It does not matter why the promise was broken? Circumstances have changed massively between the time the promise was made and the point of delivery, indeed it is not even Kalonzo's promise to keep. Again, read Wanyama above, the Daily Nation even reported that Kibaki wanted very much for Tuju to be nominated but as I keep saying, there are factors exacting. There is not much use arguing, you lot start from the fact that you do not like the man, and then build a case around that. It is possible that there is a case against Kalonzo, maybe even a strong one, but not at all on this issue of MP nominations. It is quite ridiculous that anyone at all should even suggest this. You would redeem yourselves much if you at least focused on the councillors.

To iterate, these are difficult times and it is necessary to get as many people from as diverse backgrounds as possible into parliament. Positions and other goodies are not going to be shared out as they would be in a winner-takes-all system.

The lesson, if any was to be learned from the past three months is that sacrifices must be made to include as many Kenyan communities in government and in both political parties as possible. Really, even Maanzo himself would not make arguments as flimsy as these you propose here. Okay, so it is a broken promise, and then what? You really believe Kalonzo enjoyed breaking it? I even feel bad about having to demonstrate why the decision was made, and again Kalonzo did not make it by himself. Anyone willing to cross his friends for the national good is a hero not a villain. I wish Kibaki had also pushed for Tuju.

The Interventionist
written by pndiangui , March 08, 2008

Emmo

I think I have put those two issues; The nomination of councillors and that of MP's. My point is that Kalonzo has dictatorial tendencies and he hids behind them. He probably has no idea that he does. But trying to show the pushness of Raila and not recognizing that of Musyoka is failing to see the point. That sold image of a non-interventionist Kalonzo has turned out to be wishful thinking. He will not consult or collaborate , he has to have it his way. May even in loud tempo than Odinga. This has been my point.

more nonsense
written by Daniel.Waweru , March 08, 2008

wuod,

Othaya had got 60 million while Rarieda got 6 million. That is Othaya got 10 times plus. What happened then and later needs an explanation.

(Insult edited. Ed.) (...) rubbish. The total given at the bottom of your link is an obvious clerical error: the year at the top of the column is spelled wrong, and we know that all constituencies got KES 6M in the first year of CDF. The big money kicked in after that, along with additional allocations weighted for poverty levels. The Othaya total for 2003/04, by my very quick and dirty addition, is KES 5.3M.

It's obvious you don't know the first thing about CDF, and simply haven't bothered to find out.

Gatanga constituency
written by James Watt , March 08, 2008

All
May be we need to look at some of the best accountable CDF's. I for example find Gatanga's Peter Kenneth accounting standing out Link Here

That is impressive. Word of advice to Mr. Kenneth and the people who run their website. Pictures speak a thousand words. A photo gallery is absolutely essential.

I find this way of conducting public affairs excellent. The way the CDF is constructed and run, plus the availability of relevant data for public consumption, is where all our city, town and county councils etc.need to arrive at. The ministries also provide some additional interesting information.
link here
I particularly like the site of the ministry roads and of public works. Lots of good info there.

It's no secret that the local government probably is the most inefficient and corrupt part of government.

A trail has been blazed that if followed will make government more accountable and transparent. It has also provides a better way of judging our leaders other than tribe. That's why I find the discussion about Tuju and Baba Jimmy so entertaining. The Kenyan MP has become a strange animal. He not only makes laws, but is now the CEO of a constituency and he gets very well paid for all that, because interestingly enough he can set up his own pay.

It also provides a basis for people to argue on facts rather than conjecture and baseless allegations like the discussion that was going on that all government funds are taken to central province. In providing the statistics of all public servants, Mr. Mutua should have also provided statistics on all roads, schools etc. built in the 5 year period and their location.

speaking of which, here are some more interesting statistics. I didn't know that the county councils get so much money. The LATF money seems to be even more than the CDF. Nairobi alone got 5 Billion shillings in a period of 6 years. Where the hell is all that money going to? Here there's lack of accountability and transparency as to the allocation of the funds in various projects.
PDF Link here

I think that should put the the final nail in the coffin of this argument we have about distribution of national resources. It shows that we clearly have a high amount of devolution in the system already. The local authorities are controlling substantial funds in any given year. I have a feeling that for that kind of cash, the common mwananchi should be feeling a bit more value for the buck.
.
James, and everyone else, please take note of the formula for inserting links. http://yourlink.com]Link Label. Please make sure you remove the space before the http, I have only included them for demonstration purposes. Eds.

James, enjoy
written by Truthseeker , March 08, 2008

This has been discussed here several times before. There really has been a lot of money going into the constituencies since 1992, and a lot of it as you have pointed out has been completely misused. Some councils like Narok stand out in the wealth stakes, even as we continue to believe that Majimbo will help. Strawman in Nairobi, Political Responsibility and Transfer Payments from Nairobi.

LATF COMITTEE
written by pndiangui , March 09, 2008

Thankyou Watts

Peter Keneth has several photos on his achievements here http://www.gatanga.com/milesto...llery.html , including pro-active projects such as bringing on board corporate social responsibility (CSR) projects from Safaricom and East Africa Breweries synergestically with CDF funds in the upgrading of a dicpensary into a sub-district hospital with a complete martenity facility with Ultra sound machines and rehabilitation of Staff quaters. Brilliant brilliant work and a manifestation of good leadership.

Now on LATF; I really think we need a LATF committe that will be as responsive as the CDF Comittee in reporting the funds trnsferred to every local government and how they have been used. This should be backed up with a supporting bureacrats that will train councils on how to prioritize projects and to project manage those projects to get them done. This oversight authority or board should may be operate under treasury than the ministry of local government. I really think LATF has gone to waste in the last 15 years or so. It is the most less accounted for money. May be Kibaki's idea of having Mayor's and council chairmen elected directly by the people might inject a dose of accountability and bring on board more talent in the management of local governments.

re: LATF COMITTEE
written by James Watt , March 09, 2008

Thankyou Watts

Peter Keneth has several photos on his achievements here http://www.gatanga.com/milesto...lery.html
....

Ah I missed that because, the gallery is under milestones. In that case I say they need to put the gallery on the front of the page, so that it is directly accessible. Good Stuff.

The direct elections of mayors is a good idea. It's ironic that on the national stage some want to move over to the PM system, whereby the electorate elect the chief executive indirectly much like we elect mayors currently.

The other thing that should be addressed is just how many people work in this city, municipal and county councils. I think a lot of money is going into unnecessary wages rather than into infrastructure and other projects. Just to illlustate this point if a council employs 5k people, I've read elsewhere on this site that Nairobi city council employs 15k! I'd really appreciate the breakdown of what all this folks do, and each is being paid 30k pre month. Said council will be paying 150M per month which adds up to 1.8 Billion shillings per month!

The whole thing is very opaque and inefficient. If a CDF scheme can be run efficiently by 15 guys/gals, then a city, municipal or county council doesn't need more than, and am being generous, 1000 employees. Maybe big cities can employ 2000.

Actually from each county council we'd need to know, the total revenue and the total expenditure. We'd also need to know how many departments do they have. This should be created on the basis of what functions it is that each county, municipal or city needs to do. IMHO they shouldn't need more than 10 departments. 15 tops. Also they could include info on the current number of running projects etc.

It's interesting that while Gatanga constituency has a relatively good website which has about all the info one would need to know,

(they could of course expand it to include housing info and they could team up with the hotel industry, restaurants, night spots so that you could also get that info directly from the site. That is of course this if this things are existent in the area. That way they can attract local and if well marketed even international tourists to the area and boost their source of revenue. To add to that train of thought, they can also team up with the business and industries in the area, so that they can also advertise themselves),

the great city of Nairobi has a pathetic site which offers no tangible info to city residents. http://www.nairobicity.org/dep...rch=%
A website for any self respecting city must market the city to the outside world by offering infos on accomodation, transport (taxis,matatus and buses, car hire etc) as well as offering information on the services provided to residents. They also need to team up with the business and industial sector so that they can get some form of advertisement on the website, just like I have illustrated above.

re: James, enjoy
written by James Watt , March 09, 2008

This has been discussed here several times before. There really has been a lot of money going into the constituencies since 1992, and a lot of it as you have pointed out has been completely misused. Some councils like Narok stand out in the wealth stakes, even as we continue to believe that Majimbo will help. Strawman in Nairobi, Political Responsibility and Transfer Payments from Nairobi.

Good stuff, thanks.

NCC\'s Inefficiency
written by James Watt , March 09, 2008

Of Nairobi city council and inefficiency. Just as I was saying, look at the amount they pay in salaries. Ridiculous.
http://www.nationaudio.com/New...port0.html

Inequality, Sharing etc.
written by manta ray , March 09, 2008

With reference to todays Daily Nation, ODM has put forward proposals on the number of Ministries,parastatal and civil service jobs it wants to be shared on a 50/50 basis according to the power sharing accord.
What really sickens me about our politicians and also makes me want to give up on ordinary Kenya citizens is the spirit now embodied in this so called power sharing deal, now manifested by the intrigues in both ODM and PNU over expected positions and reward.
What was the fighting and slaughter in January and February about then if all the politicians wanted were positions? One would think they would be sharing power in the sense that they would be sharing responsibility to first and foremost get back Kenya on its feet and also to get people working as they were doing prior to the elections.
But not our politicians. Oooooh Nooooo! Not our dumb and unpatriotic politicians! The most important priority now is who will get what position of influence in Govt. You can be sure the squabbling that is about to take place will set back the reconstruction process and the constitutional review for months, if not years.
You see, when our politicians talk about power, it is the power that comes from occupying a position from where you can direct state contracts to your masters first, then your family, your relatives, your friends and their hangers on. The ordinary people in the villages who voted for you can eat the crumbs, when they are lucky. The politician then claims that "his people" are in Govt and are being taken care of. Total hogwash of course.

The most disgusting spectacle of all is the media disregard for all these shenanigans. The Daily Nation and the Standard would rather tell us about the lengths the protagonists will go to secure their desired positions, rather than question their insidious motives, and in the process at the very least, manage or help to get the gullible sleepwalking public out of their stupor.
When they are sharing all the positions from Minister right up to DC, WHAT is the motivation? If an ODM or PNU appointee from say, Butere, is appointed a DC through political patronage, not by dint of his professionalism or merit, but as a political reward, and is posted to Wajir, will his appointment benefit him personally or the people of Wajir? Will it benefit the people of Butere? Why should taxpayers pay for these pigs to engorge themselves silly? The issue of resettling IDPs is just lip service as the Hyenas bay and yap at the gates. What a tragedy.

WILL THE KENYAN MEDIA WAKE UP AND STOP BEING CHEERLEADERS FOR GANGSTERS, CALL THEM TO ACCOUNT AND EDUCATE OUR BLISSFULLY IGNORANT PUBLIC ON THE TRUTH?

...
written by manta ray , March 11, 2008

The real deal now begins. The squabbling over the Prime Ministers powers is only the beginning. By the time these people get to an understanding, it will be the end of the year. Then the squabbling over the constitutional review etc. The Circus continues.