...
written by aeichener , March 26, 2007

But do you at all want to be in any union with Kenyans, pray?

Alexander

forced marriage vs come we sta
written by donworry , March 26, 2007

A very interesting subject. It will come up time and time again in discussions by citizens in all the countries that are party to this sham marriage.

I am not particularly surprised that a flag and national anthem are already envisaged or that indeed there is talk of which other countries will be allowed to join to "expand" this proposed federation. The civil servants are simply "looking busy".

For a start Kenya must get her own house in order as far as political, fisical and democratic accountability goes. Whilst we dare not presume to prescribe what happens in the other countries it is a fact that many still fall short of what is acceptable human rights and political practices for the 21stC.

That said there is nothing to prevent us from getting on with real issues like harmonising customs arrangements, permitting free movement of peoples, goods and services between states and perhaps even a single currency a little later down the line.

Is it not far better to live together and get to know one another, building on each others' strengths than to enter a forced sham marriage of convenience with flowing white satin dresses and flags and national anthems which may one day explode into another Yugoslavia?

ps timothy do you call yourself and East African?

East African(for now)
written by emmo opoti , March 26, 2007

the unpatriotic chap that I am would dearly love for all borders to collapse. But we live in a world where everyone does not think the same, and before people are dragged willy nilly into a 'forced marriage' it would serve the cohesion of the future union well if the politicians worked to persuade their populaces of the need for integration.

I certainly see no reason for maintaining our borders, not as a businessman nor as someone who believes in human rights and liberty. In the future one hopes, there will be no borders anywhere on earth.

Kenyans fantasise about some superiority they only know about, while the rest of East Africa scoots silently by. I cannot think of any rational reason why we should not be one country ( the friction from the naysayers aside).

Comparisons
written by Alexander , March 26, 2007

It is of course interesting to compare the success history of the European Union (50 years ago, the Roman Treaties were signed - jubilee!) with the failure history of the East African Federation.

Alexander

Karma Chameleon
written by editor , March 26, 2007

Seems to me you got credit for inspiring the thread. :idea: Look up!
There was no blocking, you were asked simply to comply with policy.

Savco Jeans
written by emmo opoti , March 27, 2007

Incidentally the brand was ubiquitous in East Africa. Just as likely to adorn a butt in Kigoma as in Gulu or Mwatate.

Anyhow, there's two strands of opposition to the unity idea. The first is informed by the fact that we have not yet thought out this move. There are few structures in place to sell the idea, and neither have the future institutions been planned or tried. Those who belong to this school of thought would do well to lobby the governments to make these reforms now, rather than later.

The second of these strands, believes in Kenyan superiority. This is the sort of person that thinks that Tanzanians have bad attitudes towards business, or that Ugandans, Rwandese and Burundians do not respect the rule of law or human rights. There's also the notion that Kenya is far more developed than these countries and would be dragged down by union with them.

A short dispassionate look quickly shatters these perceptions. There is no example anywhere on earth of this happening. Transfer payments from Northern Europe to Southern Europe, or the American seaboards to the Southern USA have served to benefit the entirety of both the EU and the USA.

Moreover, Kenyan superiority in many areas is a myth. Democracy, human rights and the rule of law seem to have a much steadier grip in these inferior countries than they do in Kenya.

Personally, I have my eye on the vast stretches of empty land in Tanzania. Underutilised by the locals and a godsend to a Kenyan like me who worships the earth.

liberte egalite and all that
written by donworry , March 28, 2007

I feel you emmo and I only urge caution against entering a set up where we will be giving up hard won freedoms to unaccountable bodies. I would urge Rwanda and Tanzania to think twice before signing up to the man-eat-man laisez-faire reaganomics that has widened the gap between rich and poor in Kenya, even as the economy grows.

The only way out of such marriages is what Slovenia and Croatia had to endure to be free of Serbia.

Why can't we just have open borders and free movement and trade. We can please the pan-EA lobby by designing common cash, that's no problem since Kibaki said he danna want his portrait on the notes anyways.

Emmo, why have you overlooked the strand....and it is a significant strand of people who throughout the history of our region have seen the national boundaries as nothing more than administrative obstacles. One example, ofcourse is border communities. The national borders have been the greatest impediment to movement and interaction of East Africa's peoples.

The cheap turudi mashambani nationalism of the 60s and 70s had the undesired effect of placing severe village mentality in the minds of your "superior kenyan" but backward thinking is to be found all across EA.

There are many more who view East Africa as a contiguous entity. This is not some sentimental longing. It is quite literally in our blood.

east african ^
written by emmo opoti , March 30, 2007

donworry,
I am sure you have contradicted yourself in that first sentence of yours. Kenyans hardly have any freedoms they have won, or to be proud about. Our entry into any union, any movement that diminishes nationalistic fervor is in my opinion a good move. However, as is the case with Eastern Europe, and with Germany and Japan after the war, economic progress keeps nationalism at bay and helps maintain focus on the good things.

That is the real danger, as the politicians fail to sell the union, they condemn it to failure. A year, six months into the Union, the Federal Court will attempt to reverse a ruling of the Ugandan or Rwandese present courts of last resort. The good people of those countries will resent this imposition, perhaps by one of our mis-educated Kenyan judges, and then the unravelling will commence.

Is there a strand of East Africans? Happy days.

Indigo,
It really is not always about the GDP. Our countries have much to offer each other, much to exchange. Kenya may be behind these countries on GDP terms, but I still believe there are many areas where we are far more developed. The trouble is that Kenyan society and its economy suffers a very wide gap between its better and worse sections.

too much talk
written by kendirangu , March 31, 2007

I think there has been too much talk and too little action.

If politicians were really interested in this union they could start focusing on the beneficial parts first then go for the harder ones later.

For starters, the interconnection of our telecoms and power grid infrastructures is the right way.

Political unity ? thats a long shot. We are all to greedy for power.

lets get on with it
written by omari , April 06, 2007

Visionary leaders such as Nkurumah, Nyerere and other great africans had a dream of united states of africa. this is because they knew that this is the only way africa can stamp its authority at the world stage.
it is time to get on with it, with or without our selfish politcians. their motive is to see that we remain divided so that they can rule.
the bigger we are, the more power we will have as cizens of EAF. in this era of globalization, thats what we need.

Size matters
written by ras manu , April 06, 2007

who said that size does not matter? it does matter. look around the world and you will realize it. From USA to China, Now Brazil and lately, the europeans have realize the importance of size.
For this reason, the bigger the federation, the better for our peole and our children.

Be Positive
written by Karanja , April 07, 2007

Yes, we need to be cautious, yes, we need to consider this, that and that other issue. Yes. But East African unity is a prize bigger than all those trifles. In every field of business, art, education, governance... we will be forced to compete on a wider field. It can only make us better, more competitive and more creative. Let us be brave, hopeful and positive.

...
written by a guest , April 08, 2007

It is a great thought I guess, will I still remain a Kenyan?

I kinda find 'East African Lousy'.

Muamar Gaddafi thinks we should be Africans (USA), he snabbe the arabs, saying Libya was African, not Arab.

So, is Sudan Arab or African?