Hon: Raila and H.E President K
written by Prof. Baya Kobangoshe , January 25, 2008

Every journey starts with the first step. President Kibaki and Hon. Raila did exactly that, under the auspices of former UN Secretay General, Kofi Anan's team of former President Benjamin Mukapa of Tanzania and Former First Lady of Mozambique and later South Africa, Graca Machel Mandela. We can not also fail to recognize efforts of President Yoweri Kaguta Museveni of Uganda, who made a personal input as Chairman of East African Community. Charity starts at home, and it was significant for him to accept President Kibaki's invitation, much as ODM were and still remain suspicious of his role. It is very important for ODM to realize it will never be able to choose a neighbor, and maintaining positive relationships across boarders is a diplomacy virtue.
As Kenyan who believes in fair play and the rule of law, disputes of whatever nature can only be settled through dialogue. When that happens, you would be surprised how much is sorted out just through clarification or many mistunderstandings that would otherwise remain contentious. I am very sure that between President Kibaki and Hon. Raila, there are quite a number of clarifications to be made that will clear their conflict by a significant proportion. I always see this even in cases I handle in my practice.
The two leaders must come out of seizure by their teams. Some of the team members on either side sack. They do not demonstrate tact and have no room of views different from their own. You can not go into negotiations when you are not ready and willing to shift position. I must say there has not been any reaction so far (as far as I know) from PNU or goverment ministers on the dialog. However, ODM were quick to throw a tantrum on H.E. President Kibaki for indicating he was duly elected president in whatever context that he was discussing. Prof. Anya'ng Nyo'ng, who was masterminding this talk, must for sure be his age at least this time when there is a window of opportunity. To make fuss out something he can not change is you know what, hollow blow up. We expect better behavior from a professor, old dude. Even Kofi Anan and his team as well as Hon. Raila and President Kibaki, put in a face that showed respect for each other. They were there as icons of their institutions and not just some buddy on a political rally chewing roast maize. Prof. you must grow up.

Finally, it is good for ODM pentagon and MPs to know the nature of the President of Kenya. He is not egocentric and he is least bothered whether you refer to him as His Excellency the President or just President or if you wish, as Mr. Kibaki. That will not change what he is and so it doesn't break a bone of his whether you guys call him Hon. Mr Kibaki or President Kibaki. This is not the retired President Moi type of person, if you ever thought by showing disrespect and not calling him by his President title, will hurt him. Never, try something else. I thought most of these ODM guys were with President Kibaki before NARC's demise, and they ought to have gone away with a lesson at least about his personality.

...
written by a guest , January 25, 2008

any Kenyans have died and the land is full of hasara, chuki and uchungu (losses, hatred and pain). Kenyans want justice. There will be no justice before we sit down to talk. We are ready to talk to achieve justice and truth. Mheshimiwa Kibaki and I will talk until this matter is resolved. There is no need for bitterness.

That line does not augur very well. Is that a justification?

...
written by mkosakabila , January 25, 2008

No, it does not augur well. Raila seems to have a deep sense of entitlement, as if the world owed him. He sounds quite tyrannical and full of chuki just as the technocrat sounds bewildered, bemused, even incompetent. I hate them both--someone flush them down the drain.

...
written by aeichener , January 25, 2008

I can very much resonate with your latest wish, dear Mkosakabila. I also agree with the first part of your nano-analysis.
My own take on it:

It is fairly undeniable - in my opinion - that Kibaki's speech was clumsy, daft and undiplomatic.
He could have made much ground by a supple and conciliatory answer which would have mentioned Raila explicitly, and which would have acknowledged that Kibaki now and for present - regardless of the raised doubts about his legitimacy - is the legal president of all Kenyans, including the more than half who did not vote for him (just as more than half did not ote for Raila either), that he acknowledges grievances with regard to the elections, and that he extends a compromise hand to ODM, as soon as calm is restored.

On the side, the reckless and hateful riposte of the increasingly unpalatable former intellectual known as Anyang' Nyong'o has once again made clear, in his statement following Raila's, that he has not the slightest interest in any peaceful solution, and that he continues to push ODM and Kenya onto a road of mayhem and bloodshed. His incendiary answer also furthermore supports the very strong suspicions and the circumstantial evidence that some ODM politicians are behind the ethnic cleansing and the massmurders in Rift Valley.

Alexander

re:
written by Truth Be Told , January 25, 2008

[q

uote=mkosakabila]No, it does not augur well. Raila seems to have a deep sense of entitlement, as if the world owed him. He sounds quite tyrannical and full of chuki just as the technocrat sounds bewildered, bemused, even incompetent. I hate them both--someone flush them down the drain.

I think we need to define Kenya .After defining kenya then we can move ahead .

I have been asking my self: Am i a Kenyan(Or Kikuyu,Luo,Luhya,Kalenjin)

In Kenya today hawker on the street will market himself by saying do not buy from that Kikuyu.

We really need to think and agree if we want to be one nation state.I think that was supposed to be the essence of the constitutional review before it was hijacked by politicians.

For married people like me if you quarrel with your wife daily it may reach a time when you have to think if the marriage is worthwhile .

Different regions of a country do divorce.If kenyans cannot leave together in harmony they have to decide if they want to leave apart in poverty

Mkosa what is your take on this

Kibaki & Raila
written by Renee , January 25, 2008

I think both men are still on their hardline stance which is reflected from both their speeches. If you looked at their body language as they greeted each other , they did not even look at each other!!! you can tell they are both not ready to change !!

I hope they soften up , because it is still not a good sign. What if the talks do not yield any fruit , then what next for Kenya?

...
written by aeichener , January 25, 2008

A hard line betrays a hard head, which in turn needs a hard and large rungu, repeatedly applied on the empty gourds if necessary.

Alexander

Solutions to the political imp
written by Cindy , January 25, 2008

Both leaders are held hostage by their supporters hence no one is in a state to exercise moral authority either by accepting defeat or calling for a re-run. The third option is to give Raila the executive position of Prime Minister (power sharing) I do not see the third option working for now neither do I see the first one as a possibility. That leaves us with a re-run which, with the ODM-K in government, gives Kibaki a head start in numbers. A re-run, according to Kimunya, will cost us a whopping 8billion and if you think that is expensive, the economy so far has lost 60billion. Of the three options, which one comes close to ending the stalemate in both short and long term?

Cindy
London

...
written by mkosakabila , January 25, 2008

It helps a lot to not get too emotional about about some things, Wuod Aketch, tell that to Nyongo as well. Discipline can help you get what you want. Sometimes, people may not disagree with what you say but rather how and when you say it.

ODM has done a good job of showcasing their grievances, and there's a lot of sympathy for that. They now need to start being smart and acting like reasonable peers in the international arena, since they seem to want to be a part of that. Throwing tantrums, using hard, threatening language, fixating on trivialities will not get you what you want.

ps: lexander, whatever happened to Nyongo? he sounds crude now. like kamotho.

re-run
written by Timothy Wainaina , January 25, 2008

Cindy, the problem is will the two sides accept defeat in a re-run? You see the Kibaki side may want to accept defeat, but the biggest worry on our side has been what ODM will do with its victory. Someone running on a Majimbo platform in Kenya is running on a divisive and hate-filled platform, as the Luhya in the Rift Valley are no doubt finding as we speak.
A leader who makes statements such as Raila made in Kisumu this week is definitely promoting ethnic cleansing. I understand that in the heat of the moment the ODM people may refuse to see this, but trust me, hatred is hatred, once that genie was stroked and promoted in the Kikuyus are adui speech it was never going to go back till it got its feel of blood, and I am not just talking retaliation. Do the Luos at the Coast think they will stay there chummily after the Kikuyu are ejected? Do the Luhya and the Kisii in the Rift Valley who valiantly sing for Arap Mibei think they are inoculated against exclusionist violence?

When your heads are clear and the hate for Kikuyus is filtered out, you will curse the day Raila was born. I suppose there are those already doing this, in the Rift Valley, in Nyanza and in Western Kenya, but more than anywhere in Nairobi where the consequences of the violence are starker than anywhere else. Still, such sensible people will be waylaid by Raila's goons on the way to the polling station, No Feast for Kiundu.

re: re-run
written by a guest , January 25, 2008

Timothy Wainaian,
[the problem is will the two sides accept defeat in a re-run? You see the Kibaki side may want to accept defeat, but the biggest worry on our side has been what ODM will do with its victory.]

It is not a matter of accepting defeat or not? Why shouldint any of the two protagonists accept defeat if it is a satisfactorily and clear defeat? What ODM will do with its victory can only be known after they win. Did you know that a Kibaki win in 2002 will bring along Anglo leasing etc, etc? Let us be fair and tell the truth where it deserves to be told.

You talk of other tribes hating Kikuyus and yet what you write about Raila and Luos has no passion. Let us be patriotic by first changing our attitude toward other people before we ask them to reciprocate. We should not preach water and yet we drown in wine.

...
written by aeichener , January 25, 2008

Cindy, that was a very good and precise comment. I envy your concise brevity (or brief conciseness?).

1. Both liidaahs hostages of their sheep?
Might well be, but if they indeed were to lack the positional agency to compromise, this would be rather due to their immediate surroundings and sycophants (withered old authoritarian "Mt. Kenya Mafia" around Kibaki, hate-mongers and greedy carpetbaggers around Raila, corrupt are both groups), than to the sheep at large.
As a corollary, the beautiful coined aphorism of a US friend of mine: "There they go! I must hasten to follow them, for I am their leader..."

2. Power sharing is necessary. Indispensable. Non-corrupt, integer ODM politicans (come on, there must exist *some*, hidden somewhere under mossy stones) ought be given substantial ministerial posts, including internal security and foreign affairs.

3. A prime ministership for Raila, requiring a change of constitution first, is not conceivable under the present auspices, because under the Bomas draft and the present composition of the 10th parliament, it would be equivalent to a total (!) transfer of power to ODM. This however neither corresponds with the election result nor with the will of the people.

4. New elections are neither feasible nor sensible right now, with 250,000 internal refugees among a rampage of terror and intimidation. Maybe in 1 or 2 years. We can certainly not wait for 5 years.

5. Such elections should see neither Kibaki nor Raila ever again as candidates; they have both disqualified and disgraced themselves amply. Finally flush these old power-hungry men down the drain, to quote Mkosakabila.

Alexander

re:
written by Truth Be Told , January 25, 2008

Cindy, that was a very good and precise comment. I envy your concise brevity (or brief conciseness?).

1. Both liidaahs hostages of their sheep?
Might well be, but if they indeed were to lack the positional agency to compromise, this would be rather due to their immediate surroundings and sycophants (withered old authoritarian "Mt. Kenya Mafia" around Kibaki, hate-mongers and greedy carpetbaggers around Raila, corrupt are both groups), than to the sheep at large.
As a corollary, the beautiful coined aphorism of a US friend of mine: "There they go! I must hasten to follow them, for I am their leader..."

2. Power sharing is necessary. Indispensable. Non-corrupt, integer ODM politicans (come on, there must exist *some*, hidden somewhere under mossy stones) ought be given substantial ministerial posts, including internal security and foreign affairs.

3. A prime ministership for Raila, requiring a change of constitution first, is not conceivable under the present auspices, because under the Bomas draft and the present compositin of the 10th parliament, it would be equivalent to a total (!) transfer of power to ODM. This neither corresponds with the election result nor with the will of the people.

4. New elections are neither feasible nor sensible right now, with 250,000 internal refugees among a rampage of terror and intimidation. Maybe in 1 or 2 years. We can certainly not wait for 5 years.

5. Such elections should see neither Kibaki nor Raila ever again as candidates; they have both disqualified and disgraced themselves amply. Finally flush these old power-hungry men down the drain, to quote Mkosakabila.

Alexander

Alex i never thought i could agree with you but then i am beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel

By the way we cannot have elections now.We are too divided we need a new constitution.

And a cooling of period.

We can transfer power to the UN like in East Timor and Namibia then after say 3 years hold fresh elections.

In the 3 year interim period we can be deciding if we want to be Kenya

Maina
written by Timothy Wainaina , January 25, 2008

I wish I knew what you were talking about!! I am only making clear that ethnic hatred knows no borders, today it is the Gikuyu being turned out of these areas, tomorrow it will be someone else.

You remember the arguments about kufyeka nyasi and madoadoa, is there anyone who is not madoadoa but the Kalenjin themselves? And even when they have finished chasing all the Luo, Luhya, Kamba and Kisii, will it not be necessary to start asking what a Tugen is doing in Eldoret, or what a Pokot is doing in Tinderet? Do you get me now, once you start attaching labels on land, there really is no end to the strife.

realist
written by magothe , January 25, 2008

john maina-wainaina is being a realist. try speaking to any madoadoa who is/was (in many cases) living in Eld around Sept/Oct/Nov last yr and they'll tell you that they were being warned that they'd have to leave should Ojinga win. The whole majimbo/ugatuzi thing only appealed to myopic tribalists who were hoping to reap where they hadn't sowed.
Tell me this, why is it that 3 out of the last 4 elections have seen Kikuyus slaughtered? And why when riging took place in all but 2002 elections haven't peeps rioted?
Kibz has let Kenyans down bcos if he really believes he has won, this should be the time that he moves hard against those inciting and who are complicit in massacres...

Fait accompli - Kibaki\'s argu
written by Wuod Aketch , January 25, 2008

He could have made much ground by a supple and conciliatory answer which would have mentioned Raila explicitly, and which would have acknowledged that Kibaki now and for present - regardless of the raised doubts about his legitimacy - is the legal president of all Kenyans, including the more than half who did not vote for him (just as more than half did not ote for Raila either), that he acknowledges grievances with regard to the elections, and that he extends a compromise hand to ODM, as soon as calm is restored.

Alexander

Acknowledged that Kibaki is the legal president of all Kenyans? Keep on dreaming, but there is no way this thief is going stay in state house on the pretext of "fait accompli".

Majimboism redefined
written by Cindy , January 25, 2008

If people practiced an eye for an eye, as Magothe appears to be suggesting, everyone would be blind!
Majimboism has acquired varied definitions depending on who you are addressing. If I understood ODM's version correctly, then it meant, fundamentally, equal distribution of resources among the eight provinces. To the others, it meant territorial boundaries where different ethnic groups would not be allowed to settle thereby restricting different ethnic groups within their ancestral boundaries. And to others (e.g some contributors on this blog) it meant that others might want to reap where they did not sow. Which begs the crucial question(s) Which province contributes the highest tax? And which province gets the highest budgetary allocation?

Cindy

...
written by Bobby , January 25, 2008

I just want to know are there any known incidents where Kyuks have killed Luos, I mean a mob of Kyuks (no mungiki) that have taken up arms in Central and other areas and just gone looking for Luos.

Am in Garisa and everything is calm and am just shoked that its gotten this far.

Next how come there is no organization in this camps with displaced people. Why are they not organizing and keeping watch for themselves. And why oh why is the Kalenjin involved in this, Alexander asked this Question but we were oppressed for 24 years by MOI and none of the Kyuks or (US) Somali people have been born here went and raided there places....

For goodness sake people Kibaki and Raila are not concerned about the common Kenyan... Why cant people wake the hell up and refuse both of them. I repeat earlier comments i am up for flushing them down the toilet.

Where is the ONLINE Petition to stop both Kibaki and Raila from running again. Infact neither one of them stands for any of my interests. I have the first signature.

Raila, Kibaki and Kenyans
written by Wuod Aketch , January 25, 2008

Raila, Kibaki and Kenyans are one. You cannot have one without the other two. So if you talk of flushing one or both down the toilet then you have to flush the rest.
The two protagonists are a creation of Kenyans. Some of Kibaki's creators are also here on this forum. I dare say, I belong to the group.
While the rest of Kenya put their hope on Raila to free them from the poverty, corruption and assure equal distribution, Kikuyus are looking at Kibaki to guarantee the continuity of their businesses and wealth of which some were acquired in a doubtful manner. But truth is coming out that Kibaki has been using his tribe for his personal gains. In fact he does not care whether most of his tribesmen, that he is supposed to protect, have been thrown out of their homes. They are living in abject poverty today while he is sticking to the wananchi's coffers like a leech.

Do most of you feel that the man should be left to eat until he becomes full? If most of you think that he can be left until 2012 to behave in the same manner as a leech attached to their hosts and remain there until they become full, do not count on me

BS
written by magothe , January 26, 2008

Would aketch-are saying only Kiuks voted for Kibz or they are the only ones who want the economy to grow? I choose to ignore the statement linking us to doubtful wealth...

Kenya crisis
written by Ising , January 26, 2008

I have been a strong supporter of Raila just as I was a strong supporter of Kibaki in 2002. Currently Iam at loss on whom to support. I am sick and tired of the killings and mayhem. Nor do I see a solution in the offing with the two main guys standing their ground. I have always been saing that Kenya is not ready for democracy, for now I do support the view to go the East Timor and Nigerian way because even my small lad knows Raila wond the elections, can't take no prime minister and Kibaki is not willing to step down. Is there a country wishing to increase its population, I'm ready to migrate as I am agonising to be Kenyan.

why deceive a child
written by Khadija , January 26, 2008

Why would you deceive your child? How would he know that Raila won the election? Do you not think that it is maniacal stances like yours that are the main problem? If as has been widely established there were widespread and significant irregularities across the country, how would anyone be able to divine who the winner was?

The sensible option is to crusade for a fresh election, one under the United Nations supervision, with guarantees that the voting process will be free and fair (it was not in many places), that the counting process will be unimpeachable (it was not in many places) and that there will be no interference in the vote tallying process.

Anything else is likely to lead us up doodoo creek just as much as we are at the moment.

Namibian way
written by Ising , January 26, 2008

oops! I meant East Timor/Namibian way would do go for elections in 2 - 3 years time. Is any one listening........ Answer to Bobby on why people did not complain over MOI, my question is 'don't you respect the mzee who handed power to Kibaki without a fuss? If Kibaki had done so we wouldn't be in this mess.

ahem, why again
written by Khadija , January 26, 2008

Why would Kibaki hand over to Raila when Raila did not win the election? Handing over is not about feelings, it is far more important than that.

raila no good
written by lil omondi , February 02, 2008

we have seen the true side of raila he has divided us well done get a tick you have showned that empty debes make the worst noise you the greatest noise maker